heh...thx,...and yes the V diet is a bit too extreme....but it's nice to know there are some 'crazy' options out there. Fun to read about.

And I am still a bit unsure if my whole food/shake/MRP ratio is 'that' bad.

I typically have 4 meals a day of whole food, usually a mid morning meal of an MRP,...and then my preworkout is either protein/carbs OR an apple w/natty PB. My post workout (immediately) is most always protein shake/carbs....or lately its been protein blended with ice and blueberries.

Then a BIG dinner. My dinner is (unfortunately) my largest meal of the day,...and I eat ALOT of fish,....Tilapia/Shrimp with 3-4 cups veggies, or Salmon with 3-4- cups veggies,...or Turkey Burgers (no bread) with alot of veggies.
Cook the veggies with a little Sesame Oil/Sesame seeds.

So I DO eat a good deal of veggies 5 nights a week....and alot of fish (Omega 3's).......

Weights?

Not too intense.
(note: I 'know' squats and deadlifts are the big moves,...BUT unfortunately due to back issues I cannot do them. Last time I tried, WITH my PT....compressed 2 discs....so they are out. I do what I can without risking setbacks)

Day 1 - chest (3x7-10 dbell press, 3x7-10 incline smith press, 3x7-10 dbell flys) and shoulders (3x7-10 dbell press, 3x7-10 dbell lat raises, 3-7-10 dbell front raises)

Day 2 - back (3x7-10 lat pulldowns widegrip, 3x7-10 lat pulldowns rev closegrip, 3x7-10 lat rows) and legs ( 3x7-10 extensions, 3x7-dbell squat, 3x7-10 rev curls)

Day 3 - arms (3x7-10 dbell curls, 3x7-10 straightbar curls and 3x7-10 rope pulldowns, 3x7-10 closegrip smith press)

Day 4 - rest (do cardio twice maybe?.....maybe not).....the repeat cycle.

note: 1 minute rest between sets, 2 minute rest between excercises. Slow motion, emphasize negative motion.


Thanks again to everyone who has offered advice. I have some solid things to consider. Right now,....

- I am thinking to maybe reduce my cheat meals to once a week (maybe)
- make sure to drink more water 1.5gal/daioly min
- replace 1 MRP with whole food (even if its just another can of tuna..)
- maybe,....MAYBE......MAYBE!....think about raising calories

What type of cardio do you do ( i.e jogging, bike, treadmill , rower, ? ) and how did you arrive at an estimate of 1,000 calories burned for cardio ?

You mentioned earlier that you were in ' good shape ' - any possibility if bumping up your cardio duration and or intensity ( i.e. above 70% - and why do you set a target of 70% btw ) ?

Have you given any thought of introducing some form of intervals into your cardio sessions ?

Cardio is elliptical machine. (hill hiking on weekends but I dont count that).

My calories burned from cardio comes from the fact I wear a "good" Polar Heart monitor, and therefore know my expended calories after each session of cardio and weights.

I picked 70% as a decent midrange of the 50%-85% target heart rate. Sometimes I go more,...sometimes not.

Intervals?....Yes, I have definately given it some thought,...I am aware of its metabolism raising effect duration vs steady cardio. I may very well start incorporating it.

Lets not forget though,...the core issue of my post is not that there is no room for improvement, or better alternatives to some of what I am doing. The core issue is that I am overall doing most things right, definately in a deficit, and yet not 1lb has come off, and not 1/2 inch has come off my waist.
But ofcourse, if I do take into account alot of what people are saying,...and DO make many adjustments to my core program then it is quite possible I will see results,....so I am considering all that is said.

Thanks again to everyone.

Can you go harder ? For example ......perhaps closer to 75% - 80% over 40 minutes ?

On the Polar. So, you enter your weight, and for the duration - and it gives you the total calories you expended ...is that how it works - i.e is this Polar actually part ( a feature ) of the elliptical machine itself ?

Actually, my reason for suggesting intervals was much simpler than that....as I'm not referring to HIIT ( High Intensity Interval Training ) and it's metabolism raising effect post - exercise .

My sense was that by simply by introducing some moderate level intervals in your steady runs once in a while, you can improve the rate of improvement in your fitness level. And in doing so, be able to burn more calories during steady state exercise since as your fitness improves. As your aerobic capacity improves, and you can usually burn more calories doing state state cardio over the same 40 minutes. And, the added benefit is, once you have established a solid aerobic base, then you can look at HIIT - and all the fat burning benefits that come with it - i.e metabolism raising effect post -exercise. In other words, use intervals to build up your fitness level to maximize your calorie burn during steady state exercise - and as a solid foundation for HIIT.

I'm not too clear on how intense or how you have improved in your weight training over the 3 months, but if you have had some modest drops in fat lbs. in might be possible that you have also had some modest increases in muscle weight - making the net change you see in your weight over 3 months rather negligible.

On your weight..

- how often a week do you weight yourself ?

- and is it with the same scale, time of day etc. ?

You said you were at 9% bf at 210 lbs ( LBM = 190 lbs ) a while back ....

- do you have any idea what your current bf% is ?

- Do you think your current LBM ( Lean Body mass ) is still somewhere around 190-200 lbs. ?

You also said you have BIG dinners with a LOT of fish / shrimp and veggies ( 3-4- cups veggies )......

- given you track your calores, how many calories do these BIG dinners usually total to ?

Yes,...I can go harder on my cardio,.....but I also do not want to burn too many calories,...so I suppose I could go harder, or interval and just do less time.

Polar is a company that makes IMO the best heart rate monitors. The work with a monitoring device strapped to your chest which sends a signal to a watch computer that displays alot of info, including heart rate. You must program it with your age, sex, height, weight....etc...and then go through some trials with it as it monitors your rate rate rise and such. Once calibrated, it will then track your calories expenditures for excercise,...keep logs for you..etc..etc. btw - It is not part of the elliptical.

It is 'slightly possible I lost some fat, and gained some muscle hence the scale doesnt move. But, my clothes are 100% the same. Which isnt good. And we are talking about several months here,....there should be some sign of shrinkage.

Same scale, once a week ,...in the morning.

No idea what my current BF% is. I am lifting heavier weight than I ever have in my life though. Heavier, and with better form.

Meal calories throughout day (average/apprx)
meal - cal

1 - 180cal

2 - 190cal

3 - 200cal

4 - 270cal

5 - 150cal

preworkout - 110cal
postworkout - 300cal

6 (dinner) - 728cal

Thanks again!

The first sentence is a killer. If you're giving mediocre effort, your results will yield equally.

You were doing back squats when this injury happened? But now you are doing db squats correct? That is excellent. Deadlifts, when done properly, are in my opinion the best and most practical exercise. If I could only do 1 exercise for the rest of my life, it would be a deadlift. Plus there is minimal downward force on the spine.

Taking your current split routine into account, this is how I would rearrange your routine to elicit better results. When in a fat loss mode, or almost any mode for that matter, a body part split such as yours is sub optimal. You want to work as much muscle as possible, as often as possible. We dont need to train arms by themselves, its just not going to do much for you.

Day 1,3,5 - chest 3x7-10 dbell press / back (3x7-10 lat pulldowns widegrip, 3x7-10 seated rows / legs 3x7-dbell squat, 3x7-deadlift

Ive never seen a 7 rep scheme either, not saying that is bad or anything, just uncommon. How long do you run for to burn 1000 calories? 5 hours? I just cant see that as accurate for a 40 minute session @ 70% heart rate.

Additionally you mentioned not going "harder" because you didnt want to burn more calories. Rev it up man, burn some more, thats what you're trying to do.

Guess I chose some choice words there for my weight routine description ;-)
What I meant by that, was that if I was not operating in a deficit, but was in a surplus I would have a more intense weight regime. More excercies, more sets.

Interesting comments on my weight routine. It seems though that there is very little done for each bodypart per workout? I mean 1 excercise for chest? Only 2 for back? (which is a huge muscle).....and nothing at all that isolates the arms or delts?
I can see how these excercises pull in the other muscles in a synergistic sense,....but seems minimal if this is all you are doing?
Not doubting,...just questioning?

And my math was off on my heart rate percentage:
I am 38. So MAX HR is 182
My average heart rate when doing cardio is around 150, so I guess I am actually doing my cardio at 82% of my MHR.
And I burn apprx 1000cal in an hour.
On these days,....considering my overall deficit, I do not want to create too large a deficit.

I do not think my average daily deficit is the problem with my weight loss. If anything, it is too large a deficit.

Thanks Tony,...more food for thought. I am revising my strategies at this time.

Have you been to a doctor and gotten any medical reason why you aren't losing weight? Thyroid problems or some other medical condition?

Are you sure that your calorie counts are accurate... are you weighing and measuring what you're eating?

When you say you may have " too large a deficit " - I would tend to agree.

This IS an interesting puzzle you have to figure out........

- 2002 : you had a lean body mass of about 190 lbs.
- 2004 : you smoke eat and drink yourself up to 280 lbs.
- 2007 : you're still at 284 lbs.( I assume you haven't trained since 2004 )
- you now consume about 2,000 - 2,400 calories day

...even if you use things like the Katch-McArdle formula that incorporates lean mass to ballpark your BMR, for your age and height, these calcs come in at about 2,400 - 2,500 calories just to meet your BMR requirements. And it seems that is exactly what you are consuming now - just a BMR level of about 2,400 calories a day or less ( i.e 2,000 )...you consume no additional calories to sustain exercise or daily activities.

For example, you claim you are burning off 1,000 calories for cardio, you claim another 300 calories for weight training and I'd guess perhaps another 400 +/- calories a day just for sustain your daily activities. I assume you exercise 4 days a week - so ( along with calories for daily activities ), you seem to be burning an extra 700 +/- calories 2 days a week beyond BMR and another 1,400 +/- calories 2 days a week beyond BMR - for a total deficit of 4,200. But let's say, just to be safe , this 4,200 is grossly overstated, and it is actually 50% of this - 2,100, not 4,200. At a deficit of 2,100 calories a week over 12 weeks that's 25,200 calories or about 7 lbs of fat you should have dropped in 3 months. Yet, you claim you have not dropped 1 pound in 3 months.

If these numbers you are sharing are close to accurate, the cumulative deficits you have created should have resulted in you dropping around 6 +/- lbs of fat over 3 months steady exercise IMO - all other things being equal.
As I said before, if you have added some muscle weight during that time, your scale may underestimate your fat loss. And, in addition to have added muscle in 3 months, if your estimates of calories consumed and expended are inaccurate, then not seeing a loss of a pound over 3 months may not so far fetched.

As I said, an interesting puzzle.

Yes Wrangell,...you see the big picture!
I am very accurate,...ofcourse not 100% accurate,....but given my scenario,
there should be some loss. And forget the scale,...but at this level of effort, there should be a slightly looser waistline aye?
And to have gained muscle is possible,...but then again in this much of a deficit...it is potentially difficult at best. Yet on the other hand, my weights go up about every 3 workouts.

hmmmm.......maybe I should trash it all, and start over....I feel like I am close. One little adjustment and the weight could come pouring off.
When I did this years ago,.....I simply ate about 400 calories during the day, and lived off fish and rice in the evening. Did 1 hour of hard cariod 7 days a week. Lost weight fast!! Ended up in great shape with a 6pack!
NOW,...that I am trying to do it the 'right' way.............nothing ;-(

Will keep thinking and persevering,...although I must change the routine obviously. Do continue these exact actions is pointless,....it isnt working.l

Thanks!

Surplus/deficit, you need to give it all your effort at all times. But I do like the fact you understand the volume differences between the two. Im not saying you should be training with high volume, but maximum effort is required for all situations.

Why isolate the arms or delts? I just based that with what you had. On that program I listed you're hitting those bodyparts 3x a week, instead of once. Thats the way you need to look at it. Sure you can go in and do 10 sets of chest with various exercises, but then nothing for 5-7 days? The legs are the largest muscles, so you're workouts should always incorporate plenty of legs. I agree the back is a huge set of muscles, but deadlifting will bring your back extensive work.

Thats a good thing. When something isnt working, its better to reevaluate and choose a new plan. Take a look at this article:

TESTOSTERONE NATION- Training Split Roundtable

Tony,

That is a great article. I will be the first to say that what I am donig with weights,....is based on what I did in the past with weights. I am not doing it because I have some insight on to it being the 'best' way. This inertial stance is what alot of people I think do with their training,.....something may work,...but may work less than something else,...and people simply do not know any better.
You must try something new to see the results,...or lack of them. And trying something new risks one of the most precious commodities when in a program: time. I am scared of wasting time,...and so are alot of people I would guess.
So,....I pick up the basics of the routine I used years ago....toss in some new research,...tweak it 5% and if it doesnt yield great results I figure the fault must lay elswhere.

This article makes some great points, and I will know research some whole body routines, "try it" and see what happens.

So there is 1 definate adjustment I am going to make. (well,..aside from drinking more water ;-)

Thought you would like it Good luck doc.

Well,....just thought I would post as I have revised my training....we shall see what happens now?

Food: clean. Removed cheat meals entirely.
Target 2400kcal a day. Apprx avg 40g fat, 170g carb, 280g protein
1gal water minimum

Training:

Weights: (every other day): full body workout - dbell press x3, shoulder press x3, curl x3, rope pushdown x3, rows x3, leg ext x3, leg rev curl x3

Cardio: (every other day) 45min to 1 hour elliptical. apprx. 80% MHR

1 day off per week.
whole food multivitamin
Whey protein supp.
Chondroiton/Glucosamine


We shall see.......

Try getting your thyroid checked. I went 7 months without losing anything because of a low thyroid. This was with a personal trainer 3-4 times a week, a dietician, only 1500 calories a day, AND running 3-5 times per week. Trust me, it's a pain in the ass. I just recently started taking medication for it and the weight is finally starting to slowly come off.