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  I have to eat THAT MUCH?!!! Post #16 (permalink)  
Old November 30th, 2007, 04:39 AM
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Just my two cents, but wouldn't you be happy that you aren't placed on such a low caloric range to begin with? I don't know about you, but I LOVVVEEEEE food. haha At the moment, I weigh 160lbs and I workout 6 days a week. I consume betw/ 1930-2290 calories. Before I really started paying attention to BMR and whatnot, I was eating way below that and was always finding myself to be "starving." (Which in fact, I was...) I would eat anywhere from 500-900 calories less. Getting through a hard session of cardio was difficult, because of the lack of a balanced diet. I have been losing weight at a consistent pace. (I'm not rushing, because I've been there and done that. I'm not interested in "racing to a goal weight" only to give up down the line. BAH!) Good luck.

MGB
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  I have to eat THAT MUCH?!!! Post #17 (permalink)  
Old November 30th, 2007, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James View Post
That seems kinky to me... That puts me at shy of 4k calories for losing, and even on some of my worst days, I don't know if I have hit that much.
It's a ballpark.

Believe it or not, it's accurate for most.

The bigger or leaner you are, the larger that ballpark is going to be.

I've seen some of my clients have a much lower maintenance.

14-16 calories per pound is a safe estimate for the average-weight person doing a moderate level of exercise.

Last edited by Steve; January 10th, 2008 at 10:28 AM.
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  I have to eat THAT MUCH?!!! Post #18 (permalink)  
Old November 30th, 2007, 07:04 AM
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I actually am not hungry during the day, the only time I feel a little bad is after a workout where I sometimes get a little bit of a headache, then I get tired on sunday a bit.
I agree to eating a little more but I feel full after what I am eating and don't want to over stuff myself.
I don't drink juices, I do have sauces, I rarely go out to eat.
Like I said I think that the 1350 estimate is low, so I am probably more around 1500 or a little bit more I think (specially on some days depending on what my supper's like).
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  I have to eat THAT MUCH?!!! Post #19 (permalink)  
Old November 30th, 2007, 04:07 PM
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If you live in and around Edmonton I could kick your ass around the gym.

Michael
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  I have to eat THAT MUCH?!!! Post #20 (permalink)  
Old November 30th, 2007, 10:19 PM
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sorry I am near Calgary, plus spa lady doesn't really include guys, haha
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  I have to eat THAT MUCH?!!! Post #21 (permalink)  
Old December 3rd, 2007, 04:55 AM
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plus spa lady doesn't really include guys, haha
"Mike" is just a mask... "He" can still work out there...
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  I have to eat THAT MUCH?!!! Post #22 (permalink)  
Old December 9th, 2007, 08:29 AM
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I take in between 1500 and 2000 kcals in a day, and I'm still losing weight. I just try to go for the most nutrient-dense foods I can eat. It seems to be working for me.
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  I have to eat THAT MUCH?!!! Post #23 (permalink)  
Old December 16th, 2007, 06:52 AM
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My maintenance is around 3000, so i can eat plenty to keep me full
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  I have to eat THAT MUCH?!!! Post #24 (permalink)  
Old December 16th, 2007, 07:03 AM
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I know I easily consume 2,000 calories a day, work out intensely for 30 minutes a day, and I'm still losing weight. (Well, I don't know if I'm losing weight because I'm on a scale sabbatical, but I'm definitely losing inches and pant sizes.)

Personally (and this is pure opinion and circumstance) I don't want to lose weight in a way that doesn't allow me to eat "regular" food. I just don't want to eat something completely different from my family and friends all the time.

I think if you keep your caloric intake too low, you run the risk of driving your body into starvation mode, which not only keeps you from losing any weight, but causes you to slowly gain it all back in fat any time you deviate from your lowest caloric intake, pound by pound, as your body scrabbles for every bit of emergency storage it can manage.

I guess it's an individual thing. But 1,200 and lower for anybody but the most petite of sedentary people seems REALLY low to me.
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  I have to eat THAT MUCH?!!! Post #25 (permalink)  
Old December 16th, 2007, 09:29 PM
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Just so everyone knows (I have posted this other places but everyone might not have seen it) I actually am eating into the 1800's everyday. I don't know why the calculations were so off the first day I did it but since then it's been pretty consistently at 1800 (while still eating the same things in the same amounts).
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  I have to eat THAT MUCH?!!! Post #26 (permalink)  
Old December 17th, 2007, 01:19 AM
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That sounds like a lot, but the body is very smart. You are pretty active and the body knows how much it needs to keep you going. For instance, I was surprised to find out that my body burns about 1781 cals a day even if I just watch tv! That's to keep my heart beating and may lungs breathing. To reach and maintain my target weight (165 lbs) I need 2650 cals. So that leaves 859 cals for me to get off the couch a use the bathroom, go to the fridge, look for the remote, etc...(lol...I'm not that lazy). My point is, If your body thinks you are not getting enough cals to keep it going... it's gonna hold out on you. That means stored fat. This is called the famine reaction. Your body just wants to know it's gonna make it through the week.
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  I have to eat THAT MUCH?!!! Post #27 (permalink)  
Old December 17th, 2007, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha7 View Post
That sounds like a lot, but the body is very smart. You are pretty active and the body knows how much it needs to keep you going.
If this were the case, why is obesity an epidemic?

Our bodies aren't smart, in all actuality. Well, it really depends on how you look at it. From one angle, it might be too smart for its own good. Or just to slow to adapt. It's all perception.

Theres a few things. If we look at our history, and how as hunter gatherers, we did not have a continuous food supply for the large part of human history, you can see we had to develop the ability to survive periods with low to no energy. Because of this, the body wants to store excess energy as fat. It's calorically dense, easily stored etc.

Muscle is energetically costly...... ultimately asides from the base level, excess muscle is worthless to the body.

So when the early man found a huge stash of food, he would gorge until he full and then some, gaining some fat. This was a constant in order for survival of our species that was practiced for a lot longer of a time than we can fathom.

When the winter came they needed enough energy to maintain life during this period.

Since caloric overconsumption has never been an issue until now, humans have a good drive to eat, hormonally speaking.... systems that notice eating less, and they attempt to drive food intake upwards.

But the systems in place to detect overconsumption are relatively weak. The body has a slight idea the weight is getting up, but it just doesn't care as much, especially past around 15-20% BF where leptin receptor saturation occurs.

So again, it's not as 'smart' as you think if you look at it from that angle.

Quote:
Your body just wants to know it's gonna make it through the week.
The body doesn't 'think' on a week by week basis. If it were true, obesity would not be an epidemic.

Last edited by Steve; January 10th, 2008 at 10:29 AM.
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  I have to eat THAT MUCH?!!! Post #28 (permalink)  
Old January 5th, 2008, 05:39 PM
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It's not about the calories

Dear Mystic,

I know that everyone has an opinion, and much of the information out there is confusing. I also know that there are individuals on this site that believe that calorie counting is the way to reach a weight loss goal. Perhaps this has worked for them -- that's wonderful, and they are to be congratulated.

However, if it were that simple, then 66% of the adult population in this country would not be over-weight. Restricting calories slows down your metabolism. It makes your thyroid think you are starving, and it sends the body into conservation mode. This is why people who go on a calorie restricted diet will often lose weight -- reaching their goal -- then, as soon as they stop restricting calories, they gain back every pound they lost, and often 10 pounds or so more -- the Yo-Yo Dieters.

It isn't how many calories you consume -- it's what kind of calories you consume. This is not just an opinion -- this information is readily available in the medical book Guyton's Physiology if you can plow through the book to find it. The body has two fuel sources: fat and sugar. It is physiologically impossible to burn fat in the presence of even a tiny bit of sugar, because fat is the "reserve tank" like in your car. You don't get to burn the fat until all of the sugar fuel is gone.

The very first thing you can do to help yourself is to skip the bread, pasta, cereal, rice, pancakes, waffles, muffins, biscuits, energy bars, juice, and any refined sugar or corn syrup products. Even whole grains, once acted upon by the amylase (an enzyme in your saliva), turn into sugar. I'm not saying that whole grains are bad or unhealthy or have no benefit -- just that they will keep you from lasting weight loss.

Eat lots of whole fruits and vegetables, ideally at least half organic. The pesticides and insecticides sprayed on "conventional" produce mimic estrogen, one of three FAT MAKING HORMONES. Animal protein in small amounts, with no growth hormones (if it is "farm raised" fish, there are hormones added; if the meat or poultry doesn't specifically say "no hormones added" there are hormones added). If the hormones can make a turkey Butterball sized, and you are eating that Butterball, doesn't it stand to reason that it could then make you "Butterball sized"?

If you are interested in more information, feel free to go to my website -- look around, take the quiz there, watch the video on the site. The caption above says "This is an attempt to bring in the professionals." I am a professional -- my practice specialty is stubborn weight loss cases. I wish you the best of luck, and much success!
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  I have to eat THAT MUCH?!!! Post #29 (permalink)  
Old January 6th, 2008, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMoreBellyFat View Post
Dear Mystic,

I know that everyone has an opinion, and much of the information out there is confusing. I also know that there are individuals on this site that believe that calorie counting is the way to reach a weight loss goal. Perhaps this has worked for them -- that's wonderful, and they are to be congratulated.

However, if it were that simple, then 66% of the adult population in this country would not be over-weight. Restricting calories slows down your metabolism. It makes your thyroid think you are starving, and it sends the body into conservation mode. This is why people who go on a calorie restricted diet will often lose weight -- reaching their goal -- then, as soon as they stop restricting calories, they gain back every pound they lost, and often 10 pounds or so more -- the Yo-Yo Dieters.

It isn't how many calories you consume -- it's what kind of calories you consume. This is not just an opinion -- this information is readily available in the medical book Guyton's Physiology if you can plow through the book to find it. The body has two fuel sources: fat and sugar. It is physiologically impossible to burn fat in the presence of even a tiny bit of sugar, because fat is the "reserve tank" like in your car. You don't get to burn the fat until all of the sugar fuel is gone.

The very first thing you can do to help yourself is to skip the bread, pasta, cereal, rice, pancakes, waffles, muffins, biscuits, energy bars, juice, and any refined sugar or corn syrup products. Even whole grains, once acted upon by the amylase (an enzyme in your saliva), turn into sugar. I'm not saying that whole grains are bad or unhealthy or have no benefit -- just that they will keep you from lasting weight loss.

Eat lots of whole fruits and vegetables, ideally at least half organic. The pesticides and insecticides sprayed on "conventional" produce mimic estrogen, one of three FAT MAKING HORMONES. Animal protein in small amounts, with no growth hormones (if it is "farm raised" fish, there are hormones added; if the meat or poultry doesn't specifically say "no hormones added" there are hormones added). If the hormones can make a turkey Butterball sized, and you are eating that Butterball, doesn't it stand to reason that it could then make you "Butterball sized"?

If you are interested in more information, feel free to go to my website -- look around, take the quiz there, watch the video on the site. The caption above says "This is an attempt to bring in the professionals." I am a professional -- my practice specialty is stubborn weight loss cases. I wish you the best of luck, and much success!
You're a doctor?

Wow, that's about the most misinformation I've seen packed into one post in a long while.

I mean, it's fine to say you're basing this on opinion and everyone has their own opinions. This is true.

But there are a lot of facts out there that really can't be disputed and you gloss right over them as if they didn't exist.

Just my opinion, is all.
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  I have to eat THAT MUCH?!!! Post #30 (permalink)  
Old January 9th, 2008, 11:49 AM
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Indisputable facts from Guyton's Physiology, et.al.

Steve, I admire your passion and your commitment to helping people. I think it's wonderful that you have as much time to spend here on the site as you do, and I'm sure that everyone is really grateful for your dedication. As you can see, I am new to the forum, and still learning my way around it, but I too would like to help people -- especially the ones that are "stuck." I'm not sure how often I will be able to check here -- as with everyone else, it will be as my schedule permits.


Yes, I'm a doctor. It appears that you are a body builder. Would you agree that the hormone testosterone is linked to aggression, or must I cite peer reviewed studies that confirm this?

It appears that the language I used in my reply was less precise than it should have been -- my apologies:

Quote:
It isn't how many calories you consume -- it's what kind of calories you consume.
What I should have said is that it isn't ONLY how many calories one consumes . . . because there are other factors involved. Of course consuming 33,000 calories per day, for example, will cause one to be over-weight. Yes -- overeating will make one fat. That said, there are individuals who are consuming 1200 calories per day, exercising every day, and still are stuck, and can't lose weight. Why? Usually, it is because the hormone communication system in the body is not functioning optimally.

The idea that one simply needs to restrict calories and exercise more to lose weight was the predominant thinking 20 years ago. That is no longer the case. It is now becoming clear that hormones have a significant influence not only on one's weight, but what types of food they crave, and in what areas of the body they tend to store fat.

Of the well over 500 hormones in the body, three of them are responsible, directly or indirectly for storing fat: cortisol, insulin and estrogen (and 6 of them are responsible for burning fat -- anyone who wants to know what they are and how they are optimized, respond here, and I will post the data -- sources properly cited, of course!).

"Excess cortisol leads to . . . abnormal fat distribution without a marked gain in weight, characterized by the establishment of a moon face, a pendulous abdomen, and fat pads supraclavicularly and over the 7th vertebra (known as a buffalo hump)." Netter, CIBA Collection of Medical Illustrations, Vol. 4, 85.

"Persons with excess cortisol secretion frequently develop a peculiar type of obesity, with excess deposition of fat in the chest and head regions of the body, giving a buffalo-like torso and a rounded face called a 'moon face.' " Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 916.

"Whenever a greater quantity of carbohydrates enters the body than can be used immediately for energy or stored in the form of glycogen, the excess is rapidly converted into triglicerides and then stored in this form in the adipose tissue. . . Lack of availability of carbohydrates automatically increases the rate of removal of fatty acids from adipose tissues. . . When carbohydrates are not utilized for energy, almost all the energy of the body must come from metabolism of fats." Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 822.

"In place of fat utilization, the carbohydrates are used preferentially. Thus, an excess of carbohydrates in the diet not only acts as a fat-sparer, but also increases the fat in the fat stores." Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 823.

"The over-all catabolic errect of excess cortisol brings about marked muscle wasting, especially in the quadriceps femoris group, with early inability to mount stairs." Netter, CIBA Collection of Medical Illustrations, Vol. 4, 85.

" . . . estrogen inhibits thyroid action in the cells, probably interfering with the binding of thyroid to its receptor. Both hormones have phenol rings at a corner of their molecule. Estrogen may compete with thyroid hormone at the site of its receptor. In so doing, the thyroid hormone may never complete its mission, creating the hypothryroid symptoms, despite normal serum levels of thyroid hormone." Lee, What Your Doctor May not Tell you About Menopause, 147.

"It's known that the thyroid contains receptors for estrogen, and that estrogen imbalances can inhibit proper thyroid hormone secretion . . . The symptoms of estrogen dominance are very similar to side effects and symptoms of hypothyroidism, and, in fact, hypothyroidism is sometimes considered a symptom of estrogen dominance." Shomon, Living Well with Hypothyroidism, 268.

"When considering hormones such as estradiol, the most potent estrogen, forget parts per million or parts per billion. The concentrations are typically parts per trillion, one thousand times lover than parts per billion. One can begin to imagine a quantity so infinitesimally small by thinking of a drop of gin in a train of tank cars full of tonic. One drop in 660 tank cars would be one part in a trillion; such a train would be six miles long." Colborn, Dumanoski, and Myers, Our Stolen Future, 40.

"Insulin has several different effects that lead to fat storage in adipose tissue. One is the simple fact that insulin increases the utilization of glucose by most of the body's tissues, which automatically decreases the utilization of fat, thus functioning as a 'fat sparer.' However, insulin also promotes fatty acid synthesis." Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 926.

"Therefore, one of the most important functional roles of insulin in the body is to control which of these two foods [carbohydrates or fat] from moment to moment will be utilized by the cells for energy." Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 930.

"Triglycerides are synthesized mainly from carbohydrates in the liver and are transported to the adipose tissue and other peripheral tissues in the very low density lipoproteins." Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 819.

"Whenever a greater quantity of carbohydrates enters the body than can be used immediately for energy or stored in the form of glycogen, the excess is rapidly converted into triglycerides and then stored in the form in the adipose tissue. Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 822.

"All aspects of fat metabolism are greatly enhanced in the absence of insulin." Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 927.

"But also important are several hormonal changes that take place to promote rapid fatty acid mobilization from adipose tissue. Among the most important of these is a marked decrease in insulin secretion caused by the absence of carbohydrates. This not only reduces the rate of glucose utilization by the tissues, but also decreases fat synthesis, which further shifts the equilibrium in favor of fat utilization in place of carbohydrates." Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 824.

"Lack of availability of carbohydrates automatically increases the rate of removal of fatty acids from adipose tissues." Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 822.

Therefore, when insulin is not available to promote glucose entry into the fat cells, fat storage is totally blocked." Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 927.

"When the glucose concentration is low, insulin secretion is suppressed and fat is utilized almost exclusively for energy everywhere except in the brain." Guyton, Textbook of Medical Physiology, 930.

In the absence of insulin, all the effects of insulin noted above causing the storage of fat are reversed." Guyton, Texbook of Medical Physiology, 927.

"Low sugar and high fat intake favor fat utilization, with resultant ketonemia: [ketones in the blood stream]." Netter, CIBA Collection of Medical Illustrations, Vol.3, 37.

"After 3 to 49 days on a high-fat, low-carbohydrate diet, fat oxidation usually increased compared with a control diet." Achten and Jeukendrup, "Optimizing Fat Oxidation" 723.

Estrogen is responsible for the female characteristics, menstrual cycle, and changes of the uterus and breasts. It provides the fat layer around a female body, especially around the hips, buttocks, and outer thighs.

Cortisol is an important hormone produced by the adrenal glands, which acts to counter stress responses. It is anti-inflammatory and releases sugar from the liver and muscles into the blood as an instant fuel source for stressful events. Cortisol is classified as a fat burner, however, it indirectly takes body-muscle proteins and turns them into fat around the abdomen by forcing insulin to deal with excess sugar in the bloodstream.

Insulin is made by the pancreas. Its job is to lower blood sugar after meals or a stress response. It will cause cells to absorb sugar as fuel and convert the rest to fat and cholesterol. In the presence of insulin, you will not be able to burn fat. (see above references to medical textbooks) Sugar and refined carbohydrates trigger insulin.

Steve, I hope this is helpful for you. Since based on your other posts, I thought it best to respond to you with direct quotes from what amount to some of the "bibles" of medical school like Guyton and Netter -- unassailable sources -- if you need any explanation or clarification of these concepts in lay terms, I'll be happy to provide that when I have time.

Also, if you let me know to which "facts out there that really can't be disputed that [I] have glossed over," you are referring, I will be happy to give them my utmost attention as my schedule permits. Also, since you didn't specify what you consider to be "misinformation" I took a broad approach. If you have any remaining issues that I didn't cover with this post, do feel free . . .
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