I didn't weigh any of my food previously only tracked the calorie information.

Thanks again for working with me on this. I'd sign up for your personal training if you live in Nashville. The PTs at my gym are a joke, most of them are in what I would consider worse shape than me.

I've reviewed the plan and have made a few changes for my own enjoyment, and I also have a couple questions.

Workout A:
Flat BB Bench (3x8)
Cable Row (3x8)
Cable Pulldown (2x12)
DB Overhead press (shoulder press right?) (2x12)
At the end:
1 Bicep (does this have to be the same each time?) (3x8-10)
1 Tricep (same each time?) (3x8-10)
2 Abs (2x30)

The Lunges and the Deadlifts will be too hard on the knee.
How about:
Cable Flies or Fly machine (3x10)
DB shoulder (side and front) (3x8)
Pic of what I'm talking about:



Workout B:
Leg Press (3x8)
Leg Curl (2x12)
Incline DB Bench (2x12)
Decline chest Hammerstrenth (3x8)
High Row Hammerstrength (2x12)
Pullups (3x8)

At the end:
1 Bicep (can vary what type of bicep?)
1 Tricep (same question?)
2 Abs (same question?)

Questions:
Why 2x12 on some and 3x8 on others? I have normally just stuck to the 'ol standard of 3x10. Sometimes doing 10,8,6 instead and increasing the weight each time.

Do you recommend, on the 2x12 and 3x8, increasing the weight each time or doing one weight that I can struggle to do 3 sets with?

At the end when I do one bicep, can I swap this up each workout between different bicep exercises? Same goes for tricep and Ab.

Also, is one Bicep each time sufficient (since I'm hitting biceps with those back machines too)? I could easily do 2 instead of 1.

Have a good one!

Ya see, that's a pretty important step that you're missing there. Calorie counting works great as long as you're using the proper metrics. It's calories per unit of weight. So without weighing the particular food you're tracking, all you're really doing is guessing.

I appreciate the acknowledgement. In truth, I've seen some pretty crappy looking trainers (physically) who know their stuff beyond belief. That said, the training industry is in shambles. It's making money, yea.... but it's not giving it's paying customers what they deserve. Most trainers are boobs.

Okay.

Yes, DB Overhead Press is shoulder press. Do these standing.

No, the bicep exercise does not have to be the same each time. Really arm work isn't all that important while dieting for most people. I personally rotate my arm exercises from workout to workout.

I would keep it to 2 sets for biceps and 2 sets for triceps. I'd stick with the 12-15 rep range.

What are you planning on doing for abs? My suggestion would be to rotate movements; flexion, extension, rotation, stabilization.

Flexion, think crunches

Extension, think hyper extensions or good mornings

Rotation, think russian twists

Stabilization, think planks

And you don't always have to be doing such high reps. People get caught up in doing high reps to 'feel the burn' and 'tone the abz!11' but in truth you're better off mixing the intensities. High reps is fine some of the time. Other times you should focus on some heavier work. Weight your crunches, for example, so you're limited to 10 reps or something like that.

Romanian deadlifts have little to no knee flexion... are you aware of this?

No, I wouldn't add those movements.

If you can do leg presses and leg curls, you can certainly do romanian deadlifts.

Why do you like using machines?

See above.

Do you have a reason why you stuck with the old 3x10 or did you just read it someplace and buy into the concept?

Varying your loading parameters has been shown empirically and through research to be your best bet for muscle maintenance or growth. Most of my workouts actually consist of a heavy and a light component, which is what I was shooting for with the outline I presented in the workout above.

The first day was heavy horizontal pushing and pulling for the upper body and light vertical pushing and pulling.

The second day was heavy vertical pushing and pulling and light horizontal.

You switched that.

My heavy in my workouts personally is 1-6 reps per set. My light is 8-15 reps, just to give you some perspective.

There isn't a right or wrong.

To boot, there are different types of muscular development. It's certainly not an either/or, on/off switch but do some research on myofibrillar vs. sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. This isn't the sole reason for for the varying rep ranges but it's one of them.

That's a good question.

I suggest picking a weight and sticking with it across the rep range.

Here's an important bit of advice: You should never be struggling to the point where you fail. Failure, as in, you don't or barely complete the last rep (this isn't really failure but close enough) is not your goal. Failing does not mean you are working the muscles good. It's not a muscular phenomenon. It's a neurological phenomenon. So don't chase this.

Each set you should leave 1-2 reps in the 'tank.'

I'd start conservatively and work your way up by adding weight 'to the bar' when you can at each successive workout. Blasting your muscles isn't what leads to positive adaptation. Progressively overloading them over a long period of time is.

For example, if for a particular exercise you are supposed to do 3 sets of 8 and today's training looks like this:

Today:

100 lbs x 8
100 lbs x 8
100 lbs x7

The next workout you would not adjust the weight. Shoot for the same weight until you can complete all sets for all prescribed reps.

Follow me?

You should read this a couple of times. I can't stress the two points about failure and starting conservatively enough. They're important.

See above.

And I can tell that you're over-thinking this a bit; looking for a bunch of rigid rules and guidelines... and I'm sort of feeding you with answers which doesn't help the situation. You need to understand the basics and learn to apply them to your situation.

This is important b/c no workout is good or bad, right or wrong on its own merit. A workout is either proper or not in the context of what someone is using it for. That same workout I listed above would not be appropriate or optimal for the next person who is slightly different than you in either physique, goals, etc.

To add, that same workout won't work for you forever. At that point you're going to have to understand how to adjust it according to your ever-changing needs, goals, body, etc.

So don't see this as a set of rigid rules. See this as an art form based on logical application of foundational principles associated to weight training. If you haven't, I highly suggest reading through some of the stickies. You can pick and choose some of the more applicable ones in the 'words of wisdom' thread.

I'm still reading through that last post but I did have one quick question to add in there.

If previously I was doing 4-5 chest exercises and 2-3 tricep, and on the new plan I will only be doing 1-2 each time, is there any consequence of that, or was I not getting any added benefit of "blowing" it out each time?

If success is a consequence, yea, lol.

I'm not saying what you were doing is wrong, as I can't think of anything that is inherently all right or all wrong in 'this game.' Well, maybe some of the atrocious executions of squats I see in gyms today... but that's another story.

But what you were doing is something I wouldn't suggest to anyone I was training. It's right out of a bodybuilder magazine, pretty much, and what works for genetic freaks wielding steroids in bulk certainly isn't going to work for a dieted down natural.

This has been a good discussion so far, which I appreciate. Most people get huffy puffy when this sort of advice is thrown their way b/c they're too ignorant to separate themselves from their exercise routine and preconceived notions.

So thanks.

And considering we've talked about a lot important topics; metabolic repair, program design, diet assessment... I think we should make this a sticky once it's all said and done with.

Props to both of you guys. I second the sticky motion. Could it be renamed "How to ask for and receive help and advice without looking like a boob?"

I agree! I've been following this thread since it started - great stuff! And it is refreshing to see someone actually listen to the advice they are asking for

My thoughts exactly.

You don't put much emphasis on the arms in your full body workouts, how will I maintain my current arm strength. For example, if 1 year ago I was doing a small barbell curl with 10s on either end, now I do 3x10 with 20s or 25s on the end. My muscle is definitly bigger than a year ago. I don't want to lose any of that.

Same thing goes for the triceps. A year ago I might could have done one set lifting my own body weight with my triceps (a dip), now I could do this last and just hang there and still lift myself up. If I bought one of those weight vests I would use it on that exercise. I don't want to lose that as I switch my workouts.

There are several different machines for abs (that use weights, 2 of them free weights). I do not know specific names but I might could find (or take) a picture of them. You have your standard flat one where you can put your legs down, up, or in the air (uses free weights). There is another like that but it is inclined. A third you stand on and lift your legs up (with free weights). Another that I enjoy you get on your knees on it and twist to lift the weights. Hurts my sides real good.

As far as just regular situps, they end up hurting my back long before I would ever feel it in my stomach. Like a full crunch where your bringing your legs up and doing a situp I could do for quite sometime, so I don't do them very often.

Again I go back to my bicep question. I am lifting a tremendous amount more with my abs now than a long time ago. Scaling this back would make me lose some of that strength right?


I see people doing these and some bend the knees and some don't. If I hold a heavy weight and bend my knees some and tried to hold it there it would hurt after a bit. With that said I'm going to give them a shot tonight and see how it feels. I was more worried about if it hurts my knee so I put on less weight and then not getting the full benefit of the exercise out of it.

When I do leg presses and leg curls (legs straight out and bringing them down) I don't do much weight to not aggrivate my knee. Both of those with light weights were even approved by my doctor, but not legs downand lifting the weight up.

I don't really have a preference for free weights, versus cable, hammerstrength. I just picked, for example, hammerstrength decline so I don't have to get on hte upside down machine to do them. I also noticed that you had no decline in hte workout, which is why I added it in on the incline day.


I worked with a bunk trainer for a few sessions 3-4 years ago, and thats what he showed me so I just always stuck with that. He told me 3x10 or 10,8,6. I am glad to try out a different set makeup.

Thanks for that advise, it is very helpful. I always assume exactly the opposite. Blow it out on every set, give me one more, come on, come on.

Extra questions:
What does the military press work out?

With less emphasis on the chest exercises now, only doing one to hit each area, will I maintain my current chest strength? I mean my chest isnt ripped or anything but it's nice and there is definitly visible muscle there. I'm assuming that doing the right sets with the right amount of wait on just 2 or 3 chest machines is suffiecient to grow (or sustain during dieting) the muscle?

I have my food and exercise spreadsheets well under way...

Does the "don't reach for failure" tip apply to the last set or is it just for the intermediate sets?

if you want to get rid of more fat you must get stronger and faster. That translates to training more like a sprinter. Lifts weights in the lower rep range maybe 6-8 reps per set and perform some super sets in your routine. Forget long slow cardio, you would be wasting your time, do intervals not more than 10-15 minutes after each strength session. Keep your calories high to fuel this type of training (1800-2200). The fat will melt away!

How much bigger is your muscle? Or does it only look bigger? Did you measure?

Arm strength is maintained by doing compound lifts heavily. Your biceps 'fire' with all pulling motions and your triceps fire with all pressing motions.

See above.

In addition, you are to throw a couple of sets of arms in at the end of each day. How much more do you want to do? It doesn't take much at all to maintain while dieting.

Yea, so I'm telling you you can ditch most of that crap and focus on more functional movements. I'd stick with the rotation I outlined above.

Volume doesn't maintain strength. Intensity does. Does this make sense to you?

Let me know how it goes. You don't have to bend your knees.

I'd pretty much always opt for free weights over machines. You can read in the stickies why... I believe in the words of wisdom thread.

I'm glad you're glad.


Yup, that's definitely not the goal in almost all cases.

Shoulders, a little chest, traps, and triceps. Your core is stabilizing your the entire time as well, assuming you're doing them standing.

You keep going back to strength. You should get stronger doing things how I propose. Tons of volume doesn't make you stronger. Sure, you got stronger, but that was a very suboptimal road.

Powerlifters are the strongest guys on the planet and they're blasting their muscles from all different angles with a bunch of exercises.

You need to realize that if you do flat bench press, both your clavicular and sternual portions of your pec contract. Notice I didn't say upper, middle outer, mid, etc. Muscular contraction is muscular contraction. Blasting 20 more times just for some supposed benefit from hitting different angles is rather silly once you realize the actual physiology of it all.

And again and again... volume doesn't create/maintain strength. Intensity (i.e., weight on the bar) does.

Your muscles aren't going to just go away. I don't like that you say 2-3 chest machines.

If you were starting to see the light completely, you'd realize by this point in the conversation that 3 sets of 5-8 reps of flat barbell bench press would be sufficient at maintaining your muscle/strength.

Food scale?

All sets. Failure on occasion is okay. Doing it often, especially while dieting is no good.