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Need to lose body fat, not weight, stuck at 15.5% Post # 61 ( permalink)

August 8th, 2008, 07:17 AM
|  | Member | | Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Deos Fortioribus Adesse
Posts: 17,024
Rep Power: 182 | | Truthfully I don't think that amount of intensity manipulation/periodization is necessary at novice and even intermediate levels. At these stages I'm a fan of simply focusing on getting stronger. It's a time to test your limits in terms of recoverability.
The stronger one gets, the more 'stress' they apply systemically to the body.
For instance, I've been lifting for approx. a decade now hard and heavy. I've made a lot of progress in terms of strength and hypertrophy. I do something similar to the RPE stuff. I'll ramp up to a very high intensity week. If I feel good after... I might push out one more. Then I'll back off. My ramp up period varies too, depending on how I'm training at the moment. Sometimes it's 2-3 weeks... others it's 8-10 or more.
A novice and some intermediates on the other hand, I'd have them focusing on progressively overloading the muscles until that stops working. Then, and only then, do I recommend more advanced/complex periodization schemes. No sense in muddying the waters if you don't have to.
Make sense? |
Need to lose body fat, not weight, stuck at 15.5% Post # 62 ( permalink)

August 8th, 2008, 07:38 AM
| | New Member | | Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 36
Rep Power: 5 | | Makes great sense.
The carb thing (which I also made sure the calories were low in the foods too, without a scale) made me drop a pound or two almost instantaneously, but my body fat range did not change over the course of the month. I figure the 1-2 pounds of instant loss was fake or something from the low carbs. The reason I figure that is I can eat one single terrible meal, like the chips/salsa/chicken fajitas(no shell,rice,orbeans) that I'm going to eat for dinner tonight and I will instantaneously gain those 2 pounds back for the next few days and then it will be back 2 pounds lighter.
On my previous (and now to be current again) low calorie diet I didn't watch carbs at all and my weight swung from 136-139 regardless of what I ate, including a bad meal once or twice a week.
Looks like a good grams digital scale is only $15-20 on the walmart site! |
Need to lose body fat, not weight, stuck at 15.5% Post # 63 ( permalink)

August 8th, 2008, 08:07 AM
|  | Junior Member | | Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Playa Del Rey, CA
Posts: 182
Rep Power: 10 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Truthfully I don't think that amount of intensity manipulation/periodization is necessary at novice and even intermediate levels. At these stages I'm a fan of simply focusing on getting stronger. It's a time to test your limits in terms of recoverability.
The stronger one gets, the more 'stress' they apply systemically to the body.
For instance, I've been lifting for approx. a decade now hard and heavy. I've made a lot of progress in terms of strength and hypertrophy. I do something similar to the RPE stuff. I'll ramp up to a very high intensity week. If I feel good after... I might push out one more. Then I'll back off. My ramp up period varies too, depending on how I'm training at the moment. Sometimes it's 2-3 weeks... others it's 8-10 or more.
A novice and some intermediates on the other hand, I'd have them focusing on progressively overloading the muscles until that stops working. Then, and only then, do I recommend more advanced/complex periodization schemes. No sense in muddying the waters if you don't have to.
Make sense? | yup, makes sense. I was thinking I should take a break from weight training for a week, then start again with a tad bit lighter weights and work up from their. I've been doing my pullups and bench presses to failure for loooong time now with no more than 48 hours break in between each session. I probably need the recovery time. What do you think? |
Need to lose body fat, not weight, stuck at 15.5% Post # 64 ( permalink)

August 8th, 2008, 08:10 AM
|  | Member | | Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Deos Fortioribus Adesse
Posts: 17,024
Rep Power: 182 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by pcm2a The carb thing (which I also made sure the calories were low in the foods too, without a scale) made me drop a pound or two almost instantaneously, but my body fat range did not change over the course of the month. I figure the 1-2 pounds of instant loss was fake or something from the low carbs. | Most likely had to do with water/glycogen flux from the low carb. Quote: |
The reason I figure that is I can eat one single terrible meal, like the chips/salsa/chicken fajitas(no shell,rice,orbeans) that I'm going to eat for dinner tonight and I will instantaneously gain those 2 pounds back for the next few days and then it will be back 2 pounds lighter.
| Yup, sounds about right. Quote: |
On my previous (and now to be current again) low calorie diet I didn't watch carbs at all and my weight swung from 136-139 regardless of what I ate, including a bad meal once or twice a week.
| But do carbs make you feel tired, puffy, or have volatile energy swings? Quote: |
Looks like a good grams digital scale is only $15-20 on the walmart site!
| Grams and ounces are nice if it does that.
But it shouldn't be too costly. |
Need to lose body fat, not weight, stuck at 15.5% Post # 65 ( permalink)

August 8th, 2008, 08:11 AM
|  | Member | | Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Deos Fortioribus Adesse
Posts: 17,024
Rep Power: 182 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMOFO yup, makes sense. I was thinking I should take a break from weight training for a week, then start again with a tad bit lighter weights and work up from their. I've been doing my pullups and bench presses to failure for loooong time now with no more than 48 hours break in between each session. I probably need the recovery time. What do you think? | Hopefully you're doing more than just bench and pullups.
But yea... even in the novice/intermediate recovery is important. If you feel run down, achy, or your strength plateaus, it's a good indication to cut back for a week or so or take an entire week off. |
Need to lose body fat, not weight, stuck at 15.5% Post # 66 ( permalink)

August 8th, 2008, 08:48 AM
|  | Junior Member | | Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Playa Del Rey, CA
Posts: 182
Rep Power: 10 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Hopefully you're doing more than just bench and pullups. | I do a full body workout, but being a guy who wants to eventually benchpress a shit load and do countless pullups, I did them to failure hoping it would help. I was actually starting to get very depressed over my lack of progress, but I feel better now and I'm looking forward to next week when I start things out right. thanks again Steve. |
Need to lose body fat, not weight, stuck at 15.5% Post # 67 ( permalink)

August 8th, 2008, 09:02 AM
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Posts: 17,024
Rep Power: 182 | | | Gotcha and good. You're quite welcome. |
Need to lose body fat, not weight, stuck at 15.5% Post # 68 ( permalink)

August 8th, 2008, 10:05 AM
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Posts: 36
Rep Power: 5 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve But do carbs make you feel tired, puffy, or have volatile energy swings? | I don't really feel different with either diet plan, and didn't go hungry (as long as I stuck to the 5-6 eats a day plan). The only problem I had giving up all of the carbs was potato chips. Even the lower calorie chips had to go, also instead of eating sliced turkey meat in a wrap I left off the wrap, which just seems silly. I also quit eating at SubWay which I really liked.
I found this site that I think could be a giant part of my problem: Your Dream Body WorkoutXpert: Cardio Exercises - Good or Bad? How to H.I.I.T. to Burn Fat All Day
I am not, and haven't ever done the HIIT. This describes my cardio exactly! Quote:
The Long, Slow, Boring "Cardio"
In fact, when you're running the same routine day in and day out without changing up, you're prone to joint wear-and-tear and risk of overuse injury. You may actually start muscle wasting by subjecting your body to catabolic conditions. Not only that you don't burn fat efficiently as your body adapts to the same routine, but you may start to lose lean muscle mass. So you may actually get fat. This is absolutely not the ideal scenario for your weight loss effort.
| I'm going to immediatly change my cardio to 30 minutes of HIIT, 60 if I can handle it, but I suspect at first it will be more like 30 minutes of long-boring and then 30 of HIIT. |
Need to lose body fat, not weight, stuck at 15.5% Post # 69 ( permalink)

August 8th, 2008, 10:21 AM
|  | Member | | Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Deos Fortioribus Adesse
Posts: 17,024
Rep Power: 182 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by pcm2a I don't really feel different with either diet plan, and didn't go hungry (as long as I stuck to the 5-6 eats a day plan). The only problem I had giving up all of the carbs was potato chips. Even the lower calorie chips had to go, also instead of eating sliced turkey meat in a wrap I left off the wrap, which just seems silly. I also quit eating at SubWay which I really liked. | Well if you don't have a carb intolerance, I don't see any reason to go low carb unless you don't like carbs. Which would be very odd. See, this is what I'm talking about. Your grasping for The One Way. In my opinion, you really need to stop that.
There's no such thing as 30 and 60 minutes HIIT. Stick with one facet of your training/diet at a time. If you go changing everything at once, how are you going to know what's working and what's not?
If you want to read about the differences between HIIT and regular 'cardio' read this series. I promise the author is much more informed than the author you're reading here.
I mean this is all I had to read from that link you provided to decide whether I should read this or not: Quote:
One great way to fire up your fat-burning furnace and keep it burning is to do a brief 10- to 15- minute H.I.I.T. cardio at mostly RPE scale of 7 to 8 at the end of your strength training session.
It'll help you melt away unwanted body fat faster than ever. The excess post-exercise oxygen consumption (EPOC) demand due to high intensity strength training and H.I.I.T. cardio will fire up your metabolism and keep your body in fat-burning mode for good 24 to 48 hours.
| Anyhow, read this: Lyle McDonald - Steady state vs. Interval Training for Fat Loss. Explaining the Disconnect Pt 1 | Lyle McDonald Speaks
And read all the parts, it will take some searching through the blog but well worth the time. |
Need to lose body fat, not weight, stuck at 15.5% Post # 70 ( permalink)

August 8th, 2008, 12:25 PM
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Posts: 36
Rep Power: 5 | | Thanks for the link I'll definitly give it a read later tonight, and try to read up on other cardio information that I can find. I've been spending my time trying to read everything I can and gather all the knowledge of the ages.
If 3 things make up my weight loss (or lack of), food, cardio, and weights, and I'm not doing any of them optimally or could tweak them to make them better I see no reason to try one a month at a time to see which works the best. You are right though, that I could change everything up and it be a dietary change or a cardio change making the biggest difference and I probably wouldn't know.
What I do know is I did the super high intensity followed by lower intensity in 4 minute intervals on a cross ramp for 30 minutes at lunch and it was about all I could take. I feel more worn out than when I walk for an hour and do an hour a weights. I used to feel like that doing long cardio when I weighed 186 pounds. I might switch up those session with long cardio sessions to get the best of both worlds. |
Need to lose body fat, not weight, stuck at 15.5% Post # 71 ( permalink)

August 8th, 2008, 12:31 PM
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Posts: 17,024
Rep Power: 182 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by pcm2a Thanks for the link I'll definitly give it a read later tonight, and try to read up on other cardio information that I can find. I've been spending my time trying to read everything I can and gather all the knowledge of the ages.
If 3 things make up my weight loss (or lack of), food, cardio, and weights, and I'm not doing any of them optimally or could tweak them to make them better I see no reason to try one a month at a time to see which works the best. You are right though, that I could change everything up and it be a dietary change or a cardio change making the biggest difference and I probably wouldn't know. | The thing is this is about about learning how to apply these things for the rest of your life. HIIT is not some secret training parameter that's ultimately better than steady state aerobics. Quote: |
What I do know is I did the super high intensity followed by lower intensity in 4 minute intervals on a cross ramp for 30 minutes at lunch and it was about all I could take. I feel more worn out than when I walk for an hour and do an hour a weights. I used to feel like that doing long cardio when I weighed 186 pounds. I might switch up those session with long cardio sessions to get the best of both worlds.
|
Just remember that a caloric deficit and beating your body into submission usually leaves people desiring a lot more. |
Need to lose body fat, not weight, stuck at 15.5% Post # 72 ( permalink)

August 8th, 2008, 02:32 PM
| | New Member | | Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 7
Rep Power: 0 | | I have read all that has gone back and forth...and I have to say, I agree with Steve 100%. Your caloric intake is wayyyyyy to low. Yes you need to be in a caloric deficit in order to loose weight, however unless I am reading you wrong you are not necessarily trying to lose weight. If I am reading correctly you are trying to lose fat. In order to do that in order to effectively do that, you need a combination of a few things.
1. You need to know what your Total Caloric Expenditure, once you have this number you can figure out what your total caloric allowance is. If you drop that by roughly 2 calories per your body weight (ie if you weigh 150, you would subtract roughly 300 calories from this), this will allow you to lose about 2ibls a week. The pounds will be fat, not muscle.
2. Eat at least every 3 hours
3. Eat clean (Good fats-Avocado, Olive Oil etc. Good Carbs- wheat, or multigrain only)
4. Eat protein with every meal
5. Consume roughly 2g per body weight of protein, and if possible a little less then 1g per body weight of carbs.
6. Try HIT for cardio (High Interval Training) 1 min sprint, 30 sec rest, 1 min sprint etc.
7. You absolutely have to supplement for your training- protein, BCAA etc.
Now I agree you should try creatine for muscle recovery, now the only thing I disagree with Steve on is I think glutamine is an absolute especially before bed. In addition I would suggest CLA and L-Carnitine, these are specific supplements for fat reduction.
You have to drink plenty of water too, not that you didn't already know that but I feel like I should tell you anyway.
I hope I didn't ramble too much, again your calorie intake is way to low in my opinion. I hope that helped a little and good luck!!!!
XFactor Fitness |
Need to lose body fat, not weight, stuck at 15.5% Post # 73 ( permalink)

August 8th, 2008, 04:23 PM
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Posts: 36
Rep Power: 5 | | I'm definitely going to start alternating HIT and slow long cardio days to get the best of both worlds in there. I'm also going to pick up a scale later tonight so I can track over the next week exactly what is going in so we can figure out how much more/less I should be eating, and what dietary changes to make.
I did the first full body workout after work today, took about 50 minutes or so.
BB Bench 3x8, Cable row 3x8, DB Overhead press, Pulldown 2x12, Deadlift 3x8, Flies 3x8, 1 bicep, 1 tricep.
I wasn't sure what to substitute for lunges, so I picked flies since i like them quite a bit. You were also correct that the Deadlift didn't put much pressure on my bad knee. At higher weights it might, but with the amount I'm doing starting out it's not going to.
I honestly didn't think I would feel wore out after that, but it did me in pretty well. I assume that I shouldn't expect the usual chest or arm soreness that I normally get from blowing it out?
Questions:
Is it important to maintain that order each time I go? For example, if I swapped that routine around backwards I don't think I would do 3 sets with 55s on the bench press last.
Do you recommend 3 or 4 days inbetween the next full workout, or does it not really matter which?
Thanks! I only wish I had started all this about 6 months ago, I'd look like the swartzenager by now...
Last edited by pcm2a; August 8th, 2008 at 04:30 PM.
|
Need to lose body fat, not weight, stuck at 15.5% Post # 74 ( permalink)

August 8th, 2008, 05:34 PM
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Posts: 1,360
Rep Power: 20 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by XFactor Fitness If you drop that by roughly 2 calories per your body weight (ie if you weigh 150, you would subtract roughly 300 calories from this), this will allow you to lose about 2ibls a week. The pounds will be fat, not muscle. | A 300-calorie-per-day deficit does not get you 2 pounds a week of fat loss; theoretically, it'd get you to 0.6 pounds a week. Now, if you weigh 500 pounds, a 2-calorie-per- pound-per-day deficit probably will get you to 2 pounds a week. |
Need to lose body fat, not weight, stuck at 15.5% Post # 75 ( permalink)

August 8th, 2008, 05:47 PM
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Rep Power: 182 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by XFactor Fitness I disagree with Steve on is I think glutamine is an absolute especially before bed. | I'm curious as to why? Preferably with the supporting research if you have it please. |  | | | Thread Tools | Search this Thread | | | | | Display Modes | Rate This Thread | Linear Mode | |
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