I'm not sure what it is either - and I'm not one to tout the benefits of belief/faith.

I think I can have faith in or believe any number of things, but without conviction (determination) then I'm merely dilusional

with weight loss only - and i'll probably contradict whatver i said above -

do i believe I will get to my goal? yes--

though that goal might change before i get there...

but it's not because I have this strong belief in myself - I have more doubts and criticisms of myself than anybody but I have a clear understanding of my personal mission statement to get me where i want to be and i'm too stubborn to let myself fail.. I've made the path easy for myself to get there...

it's the scenic overlooks on my journey and detours that cause me angst... but i will get there... it's just staying focused

Okay, I will chime in...I think success has to do with vision (sucessful people see what others cannot or will not). And they have a driving passion for their vision. They are not deterred by the naysayers....it does not impact them. They are focused and driven to get what they see and believe in.

Beth

Good answer.

Being a professional of a field where there's no such thing as a perfect "product" and my daily studying never ends I've had to define success in my own way.
I needed to have a way of being happy with what I did every day although the real development would be visible/audible and recognized by somebody other than me maybe six months later, maybe never. That left me with one alternative.
I had to find positive feelings of success in the amount of my determination and getting through good and bad days without letting it affect my work, journey towards all the small and big goals in the future. And then the success as defined by the society, hopefully would come later and kind of justify the good feelings I already had had during the work process (without which the process would definitely not have been possible). If not, then I had felt good for trying anyway and would have enough energy to try again.
SO, success to me is actually not giving up and what makes it possible is the belief in development when you cannot see it yet.
Sorry for all the language mistakes. When I'm tired I sometimes remember that English is my third language... Hope you still decipher my point there..
Juliette

In short, I believe your answer is belief.

I believe that for there to be success on a constant basis, change must be involved. People evolve, viruses evolve, new techniques, ideas, and the list can go on and on. I think you must realize when whatever you are doing isn't getting the tasks set forth accomplished, so you must adapt to whatever new obstacle has been thrown into the mix. I feel that when you stop adapting, you will fail.

You can't teach the same thing the same way all the time. Some may get it, some may not, and if you are able to see that what you are doing isn't working and able to find a way to make it work, I think that is success!

IMO, this can be applied to life in all areas. Of course, I have thought about this for about oh.. 5 minutes maybe, so as I continue to think, I may come up with something that doesn't apply with my idea of change or adaptation.

No, this is a nice post. Especially when dealing with the human body. Adaptation is something you want to avoid majorly in terms of fitness. Once adaptation sets in, say goodbye to progress. I have talked about this a lot in here as of late.

So what you are saying is, the ability and willingness to change is part of what goes into making those select few excel.

If that is the case, I agree.

Not to be the devil's advocate, but I'm going to have to disagree on this one. I do not believe that you have to be in love with the steps you take to make the journey or the destination worthwhile. In fact, I think there is something to the whole "keeping your eyes on the prize" mentality with some goals and ultimate successes. The desire you have for the goal is what may get you through the steps that may be difficult. I know that when I have been successful in my life, I have gone through some fairly loathsome experiences to gain those successes. When I've jumped those hurtles, I am stronger because of it.

To answer your initial question as to what separates those who attain success from those who do not, I believe it essentially boils down to two charactaristics....

SELF-DETERMINATION-that pure resolve and tenacity to reach whatever goal has been set

PRIDE-the respect for oneself based on reaching the goal and having done it in an honorable fashion.

You made one assumption that dictated an incorrect response.... that being the idea that I don't find long term goals (destinations) important. I find them extremely important, vital actually, to success. If you read any articles that I have written, you would know this.

Ultimate goals that have deep-rooted emotional ties attached to them often times provide the fuel to act each and every single day. I mean, let's face it.... this is what we are truly desiring. Most of us don't REALLY want to wake up every single day and exercise. If we had the choice to be fit and have the body of our dreams without the hard work, I think many would opt for it. So again, I know that the destination is the energy provider.

And on top of this, I believe most people realize this, which is why I did not make it a focus. I think most people only focus on the destination, and too often forget how important the journey really is. You can't have one without the other.

Steve,

I actually made no such assumption. My response was simply in disagreeing with the statement that one has to be in love with the steps.

I think we are in total agreement regarding journey and goals otherwise. I think it is fairly obvious that you are a goal-oriented achiever who is appreciating his journey. Maybe that's the difference...you have to be able to appreciate the steps and the journey even if you don't love every aspect of it.

Please don't take offense to my previous post...it was not intended to offend. In fact, I love this post that you started.

Jen

First thing first. You will almost NEVER see me get emotionally tied to a discussion/debate. Not that we are arguing, but a friend of mine said this and I think it is very wise:

An argument debates an issue, not the people arguing. If you get emotionally attached to an argument, you've already lost.

So please realize, you are not going to offend me. I like being challenged actually, even though I don't think you were doing that now.

So you don't think you should enjoy the steps, is that what you are saying?

Steve-

I did not say that you should not enjoy the steps. I just do not think that enjoying every step is a prerequisite for success. Hell, if you happen to enjoy every step you take on a journey, great. But, if you do not enjoy every step, it does not make the journey less worthwhile or your goal less attainable.

I think you're trying to get an argument out of me by twisting my words. That's okay, though...this is the most fun I've had on this forum yet. I love a good argument.

Actually, I respect your opinion, and I have read much of what you've posted in the past. I think that you provide sound advice and good scientific background for your thoughts. I am a scientist by nature, so I tend to gravitate towards objective information like you have outlined in many of your posts. Keep it coming.

Jen

Haha. I am really not looking to argue. This would be the last topic I would argue over on a forum such as this. However, your definition of an argument may be slightly different than mine. Now, if you want to dispute some of my training theories, by all means, bring it on. I could have fun "arguing that.

In the "discussion" at hand, it seems as if you are talking in absolutes. "Enjoying the journey isn't a requirement to achieve success."

Right?

If we are speaking of absolutes, I would agree.

However, I am not speaking on the same level as you, which is why I think we are going back and fourth. Ya see, I like to optimize approaches toward success. Where you don't necessarily NEED to enjoy the journey, I think it is optimal not only for adherence, but also mental health and stability.

Using fitness and weight loss as an example, since we are in a forum based on these things. Who do you think is going to have a more enjoyable experience and have better chances of actually reaching their destinations?

Person A who never learns to enjoy the ride or person B who accepts, and eventually likes the actual steps one must take to succeed?

Now I am assuming something.

People can learn to like/love something that they previously had no interest in or even hated. Why do I assume this? Because I have been helping people reach their fitness goals for a large majority of my life and I have seen it time and time again. When something is proven empirically time and time again, I tend to believe it.

Also, thanks for the kind words.

Steve-

I think you are absolutely correct that the person who enjoys the journey will be more certain to achieve the goal. Given the background of a weight loss and fitness forum, I think that someone can absolutely "learn" to enjoy things that might have previously been deemed unpleasant. And, there is no doubt, that the person will have more success than another who might be simply trudging through.

However, I was thinking of the idea of successes in a more general sense, in all realms of one's life. I know there are examples where the person cannot necessarily learn to enjoy the journey. Let me give you a personal example. One of my own greatest successes is my medical degree. It was also an enormous challenge, and I don't know of anyone who ever became a physician and "enjoyed" every step of the training. My training involved sleepless 48 hour shifts away from my husband and children. It involved suffering and death of wonderful gifted individuals who still had so much to offer the world. It involved mental and physical stress, and enormous sacrifice. So, maybe you are in a field where the journey to success can become a 100% enjoyable experience for some people. I, however, am not. But the fact that there were bad experiences that helped to shape my journey does not discount my success in any way. Like I said before, the fact that I was able to get past these experiences really strengthened my character.

As an aside, I am actually trying to become one of those people who enjoys the journey to total fitness. I'm getting there.

Jen