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  What does this mean exactly? Post #1 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2008, 07:58 AM
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What does this mean exactly?

I have been reading threads left and right in this forum. I do enjoy the forum very much but it leaves me with this question. I have read that after a time of doing the same exercise or routine for too long the body adjusts and the effects are not the same, as say just starting the exercise. So I have been actively spinning for 3 months, does this mean after biking 6 months, my body would adjust to it, to the point where I wouldn't be burning the calories anymore. This just baffles me and makes no sense to me. I still sweat like a hound, I still get sore, I still increase the ressistance, I am lost anyone have any data to support this. I understand that the body will at first be surprised and will need to adapt and build to endure the exercise, but why would it over time actually decrease the amount of calories burned etc? Maybe adding the ressistance is the key issue. Not sure anyone have any thoughts on this. I would appreciate it.

Like Free weights, as long as you continue adding ressistance, you would still be pushing yourself. Or in my case, add miles or added resisstance to my routine continually. Steve where you at man, I need some knowledge.
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  What does this mean exactly? Post #2 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2008, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cycling101 View Post
I have been reading threads left and right in this forum. I do enjoy the forum very much but it leaves me with this question. I have read that after a time of doing the same exercise or routine for too long the body adjusts and the effects are not the same, as say just starting the exercise. So I have been actively spinning for 3 months, does this mean after biking 6 months, my body would adjust to it, to the point where I wouldn't be burning the calories anymore. This just baffles me and makes no sense to me.
Nope, you'll still be burning calories. Activity is activity and requires energy expenditure.

Quote:
I still sweat like a hound, I still get sore, I still increase the ressistance, I am lost anyone have any data to support this. I understand that the body will at first be surprised and will need to adapt and build to endure the exercise, but why would it over time actually decrease the amount of calories burned etc? Maybe adding the ressistance is the key issue. Not sure anyone have any thoughts on this. I would appreciate it.
An argument can be made that the more trained you become, the more energy you can expend.

Lyle McDonald said it best with this:

Quote:
here's the thing, a well trained individual at 130bmp (beats per minute) and an untrained individul at 130 BPM are NOT doing the same workout

consider
untrained at 130 HR
me at 130 HR
lance armstrong at 130HR

the work output on a bike might be
80w
170w
300w

who is burning more calories?
Quote:
Like Free weights, as long as you continue adding ressistance, you would still be pushing yourself. Or in my case, add miles or added resisstance to my routine continually. Steve where you at man, I need some knowledge.
Your body adapts to a stress... have it be resistance training, cardio, etc. It doesn't like doing things it's not used to doing so it adapts to better handle the increased stresses you place on it. This just means you have to progressivly challenge the body if you want to get a positive training effect (increased muscle, better conditioning, etc, etc.) This does not mean you stop burning calories.
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  What does this mean exactly? Post #3 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2008, 08:36 AM
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Steve, your my hero mate ty. I really appreciate it.
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  What does this mean exactly? Post #4 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2008, 09:18 AM
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Yeah I never got that. If your getting stronger than you should be increasing resistance or doing it much faster.
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  What does this mean exactly? Post #5 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2008, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cycling101 View Post
why would it over time actually decrease the amount of calories burned etc?
I'm not sure I entirely understood what was said in this thread, so let me take a crack at this and see if it has any relevance.

Theoretically if you're doing the same exercise over and over at the exact same pace, and losing weight and what have you, doesn't it take more energy to move 300lbs from point A to point B than it takes to move 250lbs from point A to point B? So if you were spending less energy trying to move yourself from Point A to point B, you'd be burning less calories, which is part of why you need to add resistance to burn the same amount of calories that you had been burning before?

I don't know exactly if what I'm trying to say is accurate, or even understandable though.
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  What does this mean exactly? Post #6 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2008, 01:05 PM
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Well sure, in that case where body weight is changing, you'll be burning less calories as weight decreases if you maintain a constant intensity.

But what I said was in the context of "all things remaining equal."
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  What does this mean exactly? Post #7 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2008, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
Well sure, in that case where body weight is changing, you'll be burning less calories as weight decreases if you maintain a constant intensity.

But what I said was in the context of "all things remaining equal."
I wasn't disagreeing with you. I just got a little confused about what you were saying. I'm not a quick study
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  What does this mean exactly? Post #8 (permalink)  
Old April 18th, 2008, 01:13 PM
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I know you weren't disagreeing, silly.
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  What does this mean exactly? Post #9 (permalink)  
Old April 24th, 2008, 07:48 PM
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Here's an awesome blog entry from Lyle McDonald's blog (Lyle McDonald Speaks) this very topic... eerily actually.

Quote:
An explanation of exercise efficiency
April 23rd, 2008


Check out that alliteration, folks.

You can consider this post a sort of side-trip about the whole issue of intervals versus steady state cardio that I’ve been blogging about for the past couple of weeks. I’ve mentioned exercise efficiency briefly in a couple of posts but want to make some more detailed comments before continuing on with this blg series.

One of the common arguments against steady state cardio is something akin to ‘Steady state is useless because you become more efficient at it and burn less calories doing it.’

I’ve already addressed part of why this argument is stupid but want to go into a bit more detail.

The simple fact is that you get more efficient at anything you do regularly. This is true of weight training and interval training. And what do you do when that happens? You increase the workload (e.g. add weight to the bar, try to go faster in your sport, use a higher intensity for your intervals). Duh.

Yet somehow that same logic seemingly can’t be applied to steady state cardio, at least not according to gurus with an interval program to sell.

Somehow, even though you get better at it (assuming that this does significantly impact on calorie burn, which I’ll address next), you can’t ever work harder.

That is to say say I start walking at 3.5mph on a treadmill. Say that six weeks later I’ve become more efficient and am burning less calories. Are the anti-steady state people seriously suggesting that I can’t simply raise the workload to say 3.8 mph (or 3.5 mph on a 1.5% incline) to burn more calories (to offset any increase in efficiency)?

Yes, that does seem to be what they’re saying. So while it goes without saying that they would suggest adding weight to the bar when things get lighter, or increasing the intensity of intervals when they get harder, this somehow can’t be applied to steady state cardio. Can you understand why I have such a bug up my ass about this topic and the stupid arguments involved? It’s because they make absolutely zero fucking sense.

But I digress.

A bigger question is whether any of the above actually makes a shit’s worth of difference for the average trainee. That is, does efficiency really improve so drastically as to radically reduce caloric expenditure during steady state (some people seem to have this implied idea that you’ll be burning like half as many calories due to improved efficiency, or whatever)?

The short answer is no.

The long answer follows:

First I should probably define efficiency in the sense it’s being used here. The key thing to realize in looking at this is that most of the energy that you expend on any activity is lost as heat, only some percentage of it actually goes to producing actual work.

I mentioned in a previous blog post that, for cycling, this number ranges from about 20% (only 1/5th of the amount of energy you burn actually goes to power production) to 25% (1/4 of the total amount of energy burned goes to work production). Essentially efficiency is a measure of how much external work you get for a certain input of energy.

Of course, from a performance point of view, higher efficiencies are better, the more mechanical output I get for a certain amount of energy input, the faster I will go (on the bike, running, etc).

Now, the next question to look at is how much caloric expenditure (e.g. to cover a certain distance) varies for that range of efficiencies. Let’s say I ride my bike and generate a total power output of 420 kj (I’m picking this odd value to make the math simpler). To convert this to calories, I divide by 4.2 so that’s 100 calories. But only that only represents some percentage of the total I burned because only 20-25% of what I burned calorically went into the actual power output that my Power meter measured.

So to calculate it back out, I can divide by 0.2 for 20% efficiency or 0.25 for 25% efficiency. I’m going to use the extremes to save a bunch of calculations and look at what the maximum realistic change might actually be.

100 calories /0.2 = 500 calories burned

100 calories /0.25 = 400 calories burned

No doubt, I burn fewer calories if I’m more efficient, about 20% less comparing the lowest efficiency to the highest efficiency. So for every 1% increase in efficiency, I burn 4% fewer calories at the same workload.

But here’s the next question, how much training does it take for me to go from a 20% efficiency to a 25% efficiency? Or even to increase my efficiency by 1%?

The short answer is: essentially forever.

The longer answer is: ok, not exactly forever but it’s a time frame that is utterly irrelevant to the general population.

To make my point, I’m going to pull a data point from a study of arguably the most dominant cyclist to yet live: Lance Armstrong.

Tracked over approximately 7 years of training, Lance improved his efficiency by a whopping 8%. Or roughly 1% PER YEAR. And, to quote the paper directly:

“It is hypothesized that the improved muscular efficiency probably reflects changes in muscle myosin type stimulated from years of training intensely for 3-6 h on most days.”

Read that closely, three to six hours of cycling per day damn near EVERY DAY to get a 1% efficiency increase PER YEAR.

And yet, somehow, folks think that walking on the treadmill a few times per week is going to ramp up their efficiency such that they are burning massively less calories during their workouts after a few weeks.

Sorry folks, it doesn’t work that way. There’s a reason that endurance athletes train damn near daily for years on end to reach their ultimate genetic limit of performance. After VO2 max peaks and lactate threshold peaks, the only way to get better is with efficiency improvements. And it takes years of grinding effort to improve this by even a small amount.

But you say, what’s happening when, after a few weeks, it’s suddenly easier to do my workouts?

That’s not efficiency, that’s called improving fitness.

And, as above, when that happens you have to increase the workload.

When 100 lbs on the bar is too light, you go to 110 lbs.

When 200 watts during intervals is too easy, you go to 220 watts.

And when 3.5 mph on the treadmill becomes easier, you raise the speed, incline or both.

Yet every pro-interval guru who would tell you do the first and second, seem to feel that it’s impossible to do the third.

Lyle

Bodyrecomposition - Lyle McDonald

P.S. For folks coming in late, let me make it clear again that I am not trying to make an argument for steady state or against interval training (as both have their roles to play), I’m simply trying to point out some of the more idiotic arguments being made by the pro-interval camp to try and discredit steady state cardio as a useful modality.
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  What does this mean exactly? Post #10 (permalink)  
Old April 24th, 2008, 10:10 PM
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thanks steve and Lyle, excellent info. Exactly what I was looking for, thanks for going back to the dead thread.
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  What does this mean exactly? Post #11 (permalink)  
Old April 25th, 2008, 03:25 AM
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That's what's awesome about spinning compared to other aerobic exercises. You get better and don't know it. One day it's the end of class and you're taking all the resistance off when you start to wonder if the knob is broken because it just keeps turning! I loved that when I used to spin.
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