| » Stats |
Members: 27,080
Threads: 30,542
Posts: 587,616
Top Poster: maleficent (20,075) | | Welcome to our newest member, redEi4Anewstart | |
If you register for free, you will be able to post threads, vote on polls and lots more. If you have problems with the registration or logging in, please contact the administrator.
 | 
April 18th, 2008, 07:58 AM
|  | Junior Member | | Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 111
Rep Power: 7 | | | What does this mean exactly? I have been reading threads left and right in this forum. I do enjoy the forum very much but it leaves me with this question. I have read that after a time of doing the same exercise or routine for too long the body adjusts and the effects are not the same, as say just starting the exercise. So I have been actively spinning for 3 months, does this mean after biking 6 months, my body would adjust to it, to the point where I wouldn't be burning the calories anymore. This just baffles me and makes no sense to me. I still sweat like a hound, I still get sore, I still increase the ressistance, I am lost anyone have any data to support this. I understand that the body will at first be surprised and will need to adapt and build to endure the exercise, but why would it over time actually decrease the amount of calories burned etc? Maybe adding the ressistance is the key issue. Not sure anyone have any thoughts on this. I would appreciate it.
Like Free weights, as long as you continue adding ressistance, you would still be pushing yourself. Or in my case, add miles or added resisstance to my routine continually. Steve where you at man, I need some knowledge. | 
April 18th, 2008, 08:10 AM
|  | Member | | Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Deos Fortioribus Adesse
Posts: 17,048
Rep Power: 182 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Cycling101 I have been reading threads left and right in this forum. I do enjoy the forum very much but it leaves me with this question. I have read that after a time of doing the same exercise or routine for too long the body adjusts and the effects are not the same, as say just starting the exercise. So I have been actively spinning for 3 months, does this mean after biking 6 months, my body would adjust to it, to the point where I wouldn't be burning the calories anymore. This just baffles me and makes no sense to me. | Nope, you'll still be burning calories. Activity is activity and requires energy expenditure. Quote: |
I still sweat like a hound, I still get sore, I still increase the ressistance, I am lost anyone have any data to support this. I understand that the body will at first be surprised and will need to adapt and build to endure the exercise, but why would it over time actually decrease the amount of calories burned etc? Maybe adding the ressistance is the key issue. Not sure anyone have any thoughts on this. I would appreciate it.
| An argument can be made that the more trained you become, the more energy you can expend.
Lyle McDonald said it best with this: Quote:
here's the thing, a well trained individual at 130bmp (beats per minute) and an untrained individul at 130 BPM are NOT doing the same workout
consider
untrained at 130 HR
me at 130 HR
lance armstrong at 130HR
the work output on a bike might be
80w
170w
300w
who is burning more calories?
| Quote:
Like Free weights, as long as you continue adding ressistance, you would still be pushing yourself. Or in my case, add miles or added resisstance to my routine continually. Steve where you at man, I need some knowledge. | Your body adapts to a stress... have it be resistance training, cardio, etc. It doesn't like doing things it's not used to doing so it adapts to better handle the increased stresses you place on it. This just means you have to progressivly challenge the body if you want to get a positive training effect (increased muscle, better conditioning, etc, etc.) This does not mean you stop burning calories. | 
April 18th, 2008, 08:36 AM
|  | Junior Member | | Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 111
Rep Power: 7 | | Steve, your my hero mate ty. I really appreciate it. | 
April 18th, 2008, 09:18 AM
| | Member | | Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 401
Rep Power: 10 | | | Yeah I never got that. If your getting stronger than you should be increasing resistance or doing it much faster. | 
April 18th, 2008, 12:26 PM
|  | Member | | Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Canada
Posts: 722
Rep Power: 13 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Cycling101 why would it over time actually decrease the amount of calories burned etc? | I'm not sure I entirely understood what was said in this thread, so let me take a crack at this and see if it has any relevance.
Theoretically if you're doing the same exercise over and over at the exact same pace, and losing weight and what have you, doesn't it take more energy to move 300lbs from point A to point B than it takes to move 250lbs from point A to point B? So if you were spending less energy trying to move yourself from Point A to point B, you'd be burning less calories, which is part of why you need to add resistance to burn the same amount of calories that you had been burning before?
I don't know exactly if what I'm trying to say is accurate, or even understandable though. | 
April 18th, 2008, 01:05 PM
|  | Member | | Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Deos Fortioribus Adesse
Posts: 17,048
Rep Power: 182 | | Well sure, in that case where body weight is changing, you'll be burning less calories as weight decreases if you maintain a constant intensity.
But what I said was in the context of "all things remaining equal." | 
April 18th, 2008, 01:07 PM
|  | Member | | Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Canada
Posts: 722
Rep Power: 13 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Well sure, in that case where body weight is changing, you'll be burning less calories as weight decreases if you maintain a constant intensity.
But what I said was in the context of "all things remaining equal." | I wasn't disagreeing with you. I just got a little confused about what you were saying. I'm not a quick study | 
April 18th, 2008, 01:13 PM
|  | Member | | Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Deos Fortioribus Adesse
Posts: 17,048
Rep Power: 182 | | I know you weren't disagreeing, silly. | 
April 24th, 2008, 07:48 PM
|  | Member | | Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Deos Fortioribus Adesse
Posts: 17,048
Rep Power: 182 | | Here's an awesome blog entry from Lyle McDonald's blog ( Lyle McDonald Speaks) this very topic... eerily actually. Quote: An explanation of exercise efficiency
April 23rd, 2008
Check out that alliteration, folks.
You can consider this post a sort of side-trip about the whole issue of intervals versus steady state cardio that I’ve been blogging about for the past couple of weeks. I’ve mentioned exercise efficiency briefly in a couple of posts but want to make some more detailed comments before continuing on with this blg series.
One of the common arguments against steady state cardio is something akin to ‘Steady state is useless because you become more efficient at it and burn less calories doing it.’
I’ve already addressed part of why this argument is stupid but want to go into a bit more detail.
The simple fact is that you get more efficient at anything you do regularly. This is true of weight training and interval training. And what do you do when that happens? You increase the workload (e.g. add weight to the bar, try to go faster in your sport, use a higher intensity for your intervals). Duh.
Yet somehow that same logic seemingly can’t be applied to steady state cardio, at least not according to gurus with an interval program to sell.
Somehow, even though you get better at it (assuming that this does significantly impact on calorie burn, which I’ll address next), you can’t ever work harder.
That is to say say I start walking at 3.5mph on a treadmill. Say that six weeks later I’ve become more efficient and am burning less calories. Are the anti-steady state people seriously suggesting that I can’t simply raise the workload to say 3.8 mph (or 3.5 mph on a 1.5% incline) to burn more calories (to offset any increase in efficiency)?
Yes, that does seem to be what they’re saying. So while it goes without saying that they would suggest adding weight to the bar when things get lighter, or increasing the intensity of intervals when they get harder, this somehow can’t be applied to steady state cardio. Can you understand why I have such a bug up my ass about this topic and the stupid arguments involved? It’s because they make absolutely zero fucking sense.
But I digress.
A bigger question is whether any of the above actually makes a shit’s worth of difference for the average trainee. That is, does efficiency really improve so drastically as to radically reduce caloric expenditure during steady state (some people seem to have this implied idea that you’ll be burning like half as many calories due to improved efficiency, or whatever)?
The short answer is no.
The long answer follows:
First I should probably define efficiency in the sense it’s being used here. The key thing to realize in looking at this is that most of the energy that you expend on any activity is lost as heat, only some percentage of it actually goes to producing actual work.
I mentioned in a previous blog post that, for cycling, this number ranges from about 20% (only 1/5th of the amount of energy you burn actually goes to power production) to 25% (1/4 of the total amount of energy burned goes to work production). Essentially efficiency is a measure of how much external work you get for a certain input of energy.
Of course, from a performance point of view, higher efficiencies are better, the more mechanical output I get for a certain amount of energy input, the faster I will go (on the bike, running, etc).
Now, the next question to look at is how much caloric expenditure (e.g. to cover a certain distance) varies for that range of efficiencies. Let’s say I ride my bike and generate a total power output of 420 kj (I’m picking this odd value to make the math simpler). To convert this to calories, I divide by 4.2 so that’s 100 calories. But only that only represents some percentage of the total I burned because only 20-25% of what I burned calorically went into the actual power output that my Power meter measured.
So to calculate it back out, I can divide by 0.2 for 20% efficiency or 0.25 for 25% efficiency. I’m going to use the extremes to save a bunch of calculations and look at what the maximum realistic change might actually be.
100 calories /0.2 = 500 calories burned
100 calories /0.25 = 400 calories burned
No doubt, I burn fewer calories if I’m more efficient, about 20% less comparing the lowest efficiency to the highest efficiency. So for every 1% increase in efficiency, I burn 4% fewer calories at the same workload.
But here’s the next question, how much training does it take for me to go from a 20% efficiency to a 25% efficiency? Or even to increase my efficiency by 1%?
The short answer is: essentially forever.
The longer answer is: ok, not exactly forever but it’s a time frame that is utterly irrelevant to the general population.
To make my point, I’m going to pull a data point from a study of arguably the most dominant cyclist to yet live: Lance Armstrong.
Tracked over approximately 7 years of training, Lance improved his efficiency by a whopping 8%. Or roughly 1% PER YEAR. And, to quote the paper directly:
“It is hypothesized that the improved muscular efficiency probably reflects changes in muscle myosin type stimulated from years of training intensely for 3-6 h on most days.”
Read that closely, three to six hours of cycling per day damn near EVERY DAY to get a 1% efficiency increase PER YEAR.
And yet, somehow, folks think that walking on the treadmill a few times per week is going to ramp up their efficiency such that they are burning massively less calories during their workouts after a few weeks.
Sorry folks, it doesn’t work that way. There’s a reason that endurance athletes train damn near daily for years on end to reach their ultimate genetic limit of performance. After VO2 max peaks and lactate threshold peaks, the only way to get better is with efficiency improvements. And it takes years of grinding effort to improve this by even a small amount.
But you say, what’s happening when, after a few weeks, it’s suddenly easier to do my workouts?
That’s not efficiency, that’s called improving fitness.
And, as above, when that happens you have to increase the workload.
When 100 lbs on the bar is too light, you go to 110 lbs.
When 200 watts during intervals is too easy, you go to 220 watts.
And when 3.5 mph on the treadmill becomes easier, you raise the speed, incline or both.
Yet every pro-interval guru who would tell you do the first and second, seem to feel that it’s impossible to do the third.
Lyle Bodyrecomposition - Lyle McDonald
P.S. For folks coming in late, let me make it clear again that I am not trying to make an argument for steady state or against interval training (as both have their roles to play), I’m simply trying to point out some of the more idiotic arguments being made by the pro-interval camp to try and discredit steady state cardio as a useful modality.
| | 
April 24th, 2008, 10:10 PM
|  | Junior Member | | Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 111
Rep Power: 7 | | thanks steve and Lyle, excellent info.  Exactly what I was looking for, thanks for going back to the dead thread. | 
April 25th, 2008, 03:25 AM
|  | Junior Member | | Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: GA
Posts: 255
Rep Power: 8 | | That's what's awesome about spinning compared to other aerobic exercises. You get better and don't know it. One day it's the end of class and you're taking all the resistance off when you start to wonder if the knob is broken because it just keeps turning! I loved that when I used to spin. |  | | Thread Tools | Search this Thread | | | | | Display Modes | Rate This Thread | Linear Mode | |
More threads of Cycling101 | | Thread | Date | Forum | Replies | Last Post | So my journal begins.....
So my journal begins.....: Hi gang, I have decided to start the infamous...
| April 16th, 2008 | Weight Loss Diary | 75 | August 10th, 2008 12:34 PM | any cardio pros out there? or experienced?
any cardio pros out there? or experienced?: I was wondering. I spin/indoor cycle as my main...
| April 22nd, 2008 | Weight Loss Through Exercise | 4 | April 30th, 2008 12:12 PM | What does this mean exactly?
What does this mean exactly?: I have been reading threads left and right in...
| April 18th, 2008 | On Topic | 10 | April 25th, 2008 03:25 AM | sorry to keep repeating myself but...
sorry to keep repeating myself but...: Anyone have better luck going to 2 medium cardio...
| April 22nd, 2008 | Weight Loss Through Exercise | 4 | April 23rd, 2008 10:51 PM | Reality check....
Reality check....: I am consuming approx. 1600-2000 calories a day....
| April 20th, 2008 | On Topic | 5 | April 21st, 2008 07:35 AM |
Other threads in forum On Topic | | Thread | Date | Thread Starter | Replies | Last Post | Weight Loss, Weight Gain,and Varicose Veins
Weight Loss, Weight Gain,and Varicose Veins: varicose veins.
I'm not sure if anyone else in...
| June 12th, 2007 | Usagi.Love | 3 | August 16th, 2007 01:42 PM | Is there a more accurate BMI scale?
Is there a more accurate BMI scale?: Sorry if this is a repost of another one...
| April 11th, 2007 | sirant | 6 | April 14th, 2007 02:34 PM | OMG!!! Bad Starbucks bad!!!!!
OMG!!! Bad Starbucks bad!!!!!: Wow,
What an eyeopener!
I remember when...
| March 26th, 2007 | sirant | 8 | March 28th, 2007 05:06 PM | One thing I'm fuzzy on...
One thing I'm fuzzy on...: My booklet on disordered eating says that I...
| January 17th, 2007 | Happychubette | 7 | January 18th, 2007 11:11 AM | I want to share this here but...
I want to share this here but...: Hey guys,
I've recently written a report on...
| November 6th, 2006 | weightlosspaul | 0 | November 6th, 2006 10:30 PM | |