I used a rmr calculator online and it estimate my ML is 2300+. Im 6'0 and weight 230. Is the calculator inaccurate?

so what is the calculation to finding a maintence point and a loss point how do you know how many calories to consume to loose?? Is it diffrent as you loose weight? Is it actually possible to loose weight and not keep slashing calorie numbers???

You are comparing apples to oranges. I said maintenance, and you are calculating rmr.

First, there are no calculations that are going to be completely accurate. You are dealing with averages. The more variables that come into play in the equation, the more accurate the outcome will be, most likely.

For simplicity's sake, since we are dealing with averages to begin with, you can use 14-16 calories per pound of body weight for maintenance. Granted, some people are going to have a lower maintenance than this. Others will have a higher.

Or, you can use any of the online calculators, such as:

Calorie Control Council | Healthy Weight Calculator

Or you can use something like the Harris-Benedict formula to determine your BMR, and then use an activity multiplier to figure out your maintenance.

The HB formula is:

Men: BMR = 66 + (13.7 X wt in kg) + (5 X ht in cm) - (6.8 X age in years)

Women: BMR = 655 + (9.6 X wt in kg) + (1.8 X ht in cm) - (4.7 X age in years)

For those of you who don't know, there are 2.54 cm in one inch. There are 2.2 lbs in one kg.

Once you determine your BMR from the above equations, you need to multiply it be an acitivty factor. BMR is comprised of the energy you expend at rest, doing things such as breathing, digesting, circulation, etc. Obviously, if we are calculating maintenance, we need to add in the energy we expend moving around, working, exercising, etc.

Hence, you have the following activity factors, which can be modified:

Sedentary = BMR X 1.2 (little or no exercise, desk job)

Lightly active = BMR X 1.375 (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/wk)

Mod. active = BMR X 1.55 (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/wk)

Very active = BMR X 1.725 (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days/wk)

Extr. Active = BMR X 1.9 (hard daily exercise/sports & physical job or
2 X day training, marathon, football camp,

Aside from calculations, you could also keep a food log. If you maintain exactly what you eat and drink and all of the caloric values of each item for a few weeks, while tracking your weight, you will know if you are in a deficit, maintenance, or a surplus.... depending on which direction your weight is heading in, if any.

Follow me?

Once you figure out your estimated maintenance, it becomes quite easy. You simply reduce from your maintenance by a certain percentage. I like to start with a reduction of 15-20% of maintenance. However, this is a generalized statement. It can vary depending on starting point. The more weight you have to lose, the more aggressive you can be with your deficit. The less weight you have to lose, the more conservative you should be.

Yes, it is obvious from the calculations above, that your required calories depends heavily on your weight. The, as your weight comes down, so does your caloric requirements. Make sense? So, where once you were in a deficit, as the weight comes off, this same caloric intake may become your maintenance.

I will add, that calculating your calories shouldn't be something you do on a weekly basis. Figure out a starting point. Stick with it for a few weeks. Note your changes, if any. If measurements (weight, body fat, actual measurement in inches) are heading the wrong way, you know that your intake was off. Modify as you see results.

I always say, you are not signing a contract when you calculate your calories. You are merely finding a starting point. From it, changes will certainly occur over time, either due to metabolic slowdowns and/or miscalculations.

Sure, as long as you progessively bump up energy expenditure through exercise. However, a combination of both reduction of consumption and increase in activity has proven to be the most effective approach for me.

Thanks man..........I printed that out cuz it's a lot to take in..........thank you for posting it, I know it took some time and i apprisheate it..........going to go get my calculator and figure this out man!!!! (I always sucked at math!!!)
later STAR

Haha, you are welcome Star. It didn't take me long at all. I must be a fast typer!

Steve, great info!

I am wondering, does your body display the same "adaptive" response while weight lifting...or doing cardio...

I saw an ad on TV about muscle confusion; you literally confuse your muscle, switch up the exercises, do you do not plateau, and continue to gain muscle. Does your body have such a response to weight lifting?

Also, I heard somethign that if you do a the same cardio (lets say jogging for instance, 3 days a week for 45 min) and you keep up that routine, your body *adapts* and you lose less calories.

Of course I know, the more fit you are, the lower your HR becomes, and the more you have to pump out to keep creating the same deficit. Heh...i think i just answered my own question...well, to the cardio that is :P. Still clueless about the weight lifting.

Lately I have been going back and forth weekly by one week eating 1800-2000 calories a day and the next week trying to stay within 1200-1500 calories a day. Would this help my metabolism not lower too much? I know you have said before that really heavy people are a lot less likely to go into starvation mode, so does this apply to them as well?

This ad, and many other marketing gimmicks are grossly over-simplifying the body. Sure, our bodies are adaptive mechanisms. And switching exercises to "confuse" you system may work for maintaining muscle while in a calorie deficit, as muscle maintenance does not take much to achieve.

However, for muscle building, not so much. I mean, progressive overload is one of the primary components of hypertrophy. This means, you add weight above and beyond that of what your body is used to. As your body gets used to the new, higher weight, you up the weight again. This keeps your body in a constant state of adapting. Part of this adaptation process is hypertrophy and strength, to keep up with the higher, and higher weights.

Follow me?

So, in a sense, simply adding weight to the bar on a consistent basis is a form of "muscle confusion." But is allows for a base in your program to build upon, hence, maintain progressive overload. On the flip-side, going into the gym and doing whatever you feel like just to "confuse" the muscles doesn't make sense when you take the above into account.

Confuse the muscle too much by totally throwing out the law of progressive overload, and I think you will be doing things, sub-optimally at best.

Same goes for cardio, as in, progressive overload applies to cardio too. You can't pick a set pace, distance, and heart rate and expect it to give you the same results forever. Your body will adapt to this "stress" in order to make it easier. The easier it becomes, the less you "get" from the exercise.

This is why a progression from low intensity steady state cardio into higher intensity steady state cardio, interval training, and eventually high intensity interval training is called for in most cases.

This thread is becoming more than, "you don't have to starve." I think it is filled with some great information, but I think the title should be changed to something else, if that is possible Mods? Especially since it is a stickie.

Cyclical calorie approach is something I use regularly with myself and others who are already lean or close-to-lean. Bigger people, not so much.

There really isn't a need to throw in the advanced dieting approaches with the larger counterparts. The more fat you have to lose, the slower the hormonal adaptations. That said, the longer window you have to utilize a straight calorie deficit.

That said, if you are finding success with your approach, don't let me be the one to tell you to change anything.

Thank you Steve for posting so much information. I have been trying to stay around 1200 but usually 1400 is where I end up... with a few days around 2000. I went to the calorie control site and my maintance is 1986 cals. So in theory when I get down to my goal weight I would then eat at my maintance (god I can't spell that!! lol) lvl? I feel that if I get close to 2000 that the weight slowly comes back. Did I go to low to fast?? I know there is advice against that but for 4.5 months it has been working. I want to make sure to do this right and not gain all the weight back from this hard work. I am totally uninformed about maintanace and am not sure what to do. There is only 15lbs until I will be moving into maintance... what would you suggest?

My pleasure.

How long have you been eating 1200-1400 calories? And how often to you go above this range?

That seems a little low. What activity factor did you use at the site? I assume light.

If that is the case, how often are you exercising.

However, this is a moot point, b/c if you've been dieting for any appreciable length of time, especially at such a reduced caloric intake as 1200, your metabolism is slower than what any of these calculators will spit out.

Couple of things here.

Mind you that as you lose weight, your maintenance level drops along with the weightloss. Your metabolism is not static. Rather, it is dynamic.

Also, if the calculator spits out a maintenance of 2000, that doesn't mean it is true for You. Metabolism responds to weightloss. It also responds to energy deficits. Create too large of one, and it will slow down at a disproportionate rate compared to your weightloss. This holds true more so for those who are of "normal" weight. Getting down into your 160's, you are getting close to a normal weight in these terms.

You see, even if you were still losing weight on a consistent basis (are you?) what happens if your metabolism slows to the point where you have a new, lower maintenance. You are already at 1200. Dropping below that is a no-no.

When you cut calories so drastically to begin with, it leaves you know room to "wiggle" as the adaptations occur from dieting.

Follow me?

But your definition of "working" and my definition of "working" are drastically different.

Working for you is defined by how quickly the number on the scale drops. Dropping scale weight is simple, in all actuality. And of course it is going to drop! If you started eating 1200 calories at 200 lbs, that is only 6 calories per pound of body weight.... a ridiculously low number. Your body had no choice but to catabolize tissue.

My definition of "working" is losing weight in a slow fashion that translates into muscle maintenance and metabolic efficiency.

I will offer up some advice once you reply to this post.

I have been eating here since Jan. 1st, 07. I am looking at my last month on Fitday and I seem to eat nearer to the 2000 range a day or two a week. Most days I am right below 1500 and there are just a smattering of days I am below 1200.

Yes I tried at a few activity levels. At a more moderate level it was up to 2200 cals. I try to exercise at least 3 times a week. It's minimum and I have added a weight training class on Fridays but that was just recently. I do understand that the calories I will need will depend on my body and I also realize I can't eat like this forever...
I am still losing weight consistanly... about 1-2 lbs a week. Usually 1.5 lbs a week.
I definatly won't be dropping my cals down!! If anything I would like to add exercise in to balance and eventually eat a bit more I want to get somewhere where I can stay for the rest of my life comfortably... or relativly so.


Yes totally understand. And yes my definition of working is different. I am very focused on the scale and though I am trying to do the best I can with health and nutrition that scale number is still my goal. I have had lots of ups and downs with just adding exercise in and though I get in shape the weight has never fallen off before. This is something totally new to me. I have the concept: burn more energy than you take in. but the finer points are hard for me to work out. So I am working on making my definition fall in line with what it should be but the "how" is hard to work out.
What does "catabolize" mean?


Ok never done this multi quoting thing... fingers are crossed:P

If this is the case, you probably aren't too far off track actually. At 162 lbs, your average daily caloric intake that I would recommend for weight loss is around 1600-1800 calories per day.

I was thinking you were eating closer to 1200 on average, but this doesn't seem to be the case.



With the exercise, I would use "moderate" as your activity factor.

That sounds about right, actually. Sounds like you are on the right path to me, assuming your macros are in check. Yes, calories are the most important factor concerning weight loss. But when you start bringing other things into the picture such as body composition and health, macro and micro nutrients become just as important IMO.

If you were losing weight at a faster rate than 1.5 lbs per week, I would be alarmed. Relying so much on the scale to be the backbone of your goals, and therefore happiness, is risky. What happens when you get closer to your goal weight? I ask, because the lighter you get, the slower your weightloss will be, if you are doing things right. Sometimes you have to be happy with <.5 lbs loss per week. For someone with the "scale mentality" this might mean failure.

I usually ask people this:

What is more important to you? The way you look and feel or the number on the scale?

A deficit is a deficit, no matter its origin. Meaning, it can come from a reduction in food, an increase in exercise, or a combination of the two. Ideally, it is a combo of the two.

Don't get so hung up on the nitty gritty stuff. If it means anything to you, I think you are on the right track. So, if you are questioning yourself, don't.

catabolize = breakdown

Thanks Steve, It's nice to hear that I am on track. 1200 is my goal but I am not always at my goal... Since I like things like ice cream and rice and bread And seriously the numbers on the scale are really what I am focusing on. I know it should be how I feel but the effect of lower numbers on the scale is usually that I do feel better and look better. As I am getting closer to my goal I have "freak outs" with any weight gain (up 3lbs this week) and I know it will get slower and it bounces around alot because it's still life!! I do like weighing myself everyday because I can see what my progress is and more closely monitor myself and my eating. I am totally OCD and always concerned with the "nitty gritty"!!! Thanks for answering my questions