Because there is nothing in nature that is bad for you?? And nothing that was made chemically was ever good for anybody?

Just don't overdo it, that's what I think. You can't stay away from all the stuff that is supposedly bad for you anyway, half the time you don't even know it's there. If it's not sweeteners, it's something else.

And hey, what is supposedly healthy today might turn out to be dangerous tomorrow. At some point all these sweeteners were labeled as perfectly safe and harmless, even healthy because of the lower calories. And look at this thread now. Who knows what is going to be next.

So....as with pretty much everything, moderation seems to be the key here.

Excuse me, but the odds are that a food that is wholly natural will be less likely to be harmful than a food composed entirely of fake chemicals. Yes, I eat processed foods but its wise to keep them to a minimum as much as possible. If there is a choice between natural (like sugar) and a bunch of chemicals that can be found to be harmful later, as you noted occurred with other sweeteners, then I personally feel its safer to choose the natural version. Do you have any idea what effect the chemicals we eat have on the body? Well neither do I but common sense tells us that the body may have trouble processing fake chemicals. But yeah, I doubt sugar will be found to be anything more than what we already know about it. Fake sweeteners? The jury is still out but those chemicals will catch up with us.

And what do we know about sugar? If you have too much of it, it's bad for you, it makes you fat, ruins your teeth, gives you diabetes......hmmmm.....cancer from sweeteners or diabetes from sugar....*shrug*

Not saying eat all the sweeteners in the world or live completely on processed foods. Just find a healthy balance, that's all. You can't cut out everything that is, or could be, bad for you at some point. It's impossible.

And what's a 'fake' chemical?

Sugar definitely isn't too good for you either. It isn't bad in moderation though. I am in no means judging aspartame as it helps many people drink 0 calorie diet pop as opposed to 150+ calorie regular soda. Some people are highly addicted to pop and it's much better to get 0 calories than hundreds even thousands a day (I was totally there).

The only thing that I can personally judge aspartame on is how it makes my body feel...horrible. It's probably just the way I react to it but the headaches from it absolutely kill me to the point of nausea. If I have a regular sugar Coke then my body would feel fine (at least until I gained more weight from it but that's a whole 'nother storie) but if I had let's say a Coke Zero then I will feeling so horrible almost like I had the flu. That's just me though I know people that can chug it like there's no tomorrow. I personally can't go wrong with water or green tea with no sweetener.

I actually have the same problem with sweeteners, not just aspartame. It's trial and error, some are okay, others make me feel horrible. I stay away from the ones I can't stomach, and keep the other ones in moderation. Simple.

Following the "parsing words" method I see. Yes, sugar in excess is not healthy. I never did say it was healthy, did I? Sugar, as an item that is not overprocessed where it is so different from its origin that it is unrecognizable, is fine in moderation. I've never had a problem from it and its use in moderation has never caused me any problems greater than being under 15 lbs overweight. So yeah, never caused obesity for me.. Maybe its time to give the soda and overprocessed FAKE foods a rest. Soda has many artificial ingredients and chemicals, even the full sugar kind. Again, an example of a "food" that should be avoided except in extreme moderation.

Anyone heard of STEVIA? That is a sweetener with no calories that is NATURAL and has been used in other societies for decades without incident.

With the unknowns and evidence presented in the following, I PERSONALLY would not risk using something so artificial and potentially harmful.

Aspartame's Hidden Dangers

Aspartame's tainted history of approval and potentially toxic ingredients cast serious doubt on the safety of this sugar substitute. Furthermore, aspartame may actually increase your appetite (Farber 52).

While the FDA approval may signal the green light for safe consumption, 85 percent of all complaints registered with the FDA are for adverse reactions to aspartame, including five reported deaths. A closer look at the unscientific studies, suspicious approval methods, and its harmful ingredients, reveal the hidden dangers of this artificial sweetener. In reality, aspartame poses a public health threat.


Ailments Resulting From Aspartame

The components of aspartame can lead to a wide variety of ailments. Some of these problems occur gradually while others are immediate, acute reactions.

A few of the many disorders associated with aspartame include the following:

* Birth Defects

A study funded by Monsanto to study possible birth defects caused by consuming aspartame was cut off after preliminary data showed damaging information about aspartame. Additionally, in the book, While Waiting: A Prenatal Guidebook, it is stated that aspartame is suspected of causing brain damage in sensitive individuals. A fetus may be at risk for these effects. Some researchers have suggested that high doses of aspartame may be associated with problems ranging from dizziness and subtle brain changes to mental retardation.

* Cancer (Brain Cancer)

In 1981, an FDA statistician stated that the brain tumor data on aspartame was so "worrisome" that he could not recommend approval of NutraSweet.(14)

In a two-year study conducted by the manufacturer of aspartame, twelve of 320 rats fed a normal diet and aspartame developed brain tumors while none of the control rats developed tumors, and five of the twelve tumors were in rats given a low dose of aspartame.(15)

The approval of aspartame was a violation of the Delaney Amendment, which was supposed to prevent cancer-causing substances such as methanol (formaldehye) and DKP from entering our food supply. A late FDA toxicologist testified before the U.S. Congress that aspartame was capable of producing brain tumors. This made it illegal for the FDA to set an allowable daily intake at any level. He stated in his testimony that Searle's studies were "to a large extent unreliable" and that "at least one of those studies has established beyond any reasonable doubt that aspartame is capable of inducing brain tumors in experimental animals ... " He concluded his testimony by asking, "What is the reason for the apparent refusal by the FDA to invoke for this food additive the so-called Delaney Amendment to the Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act? ... And if the FDA itself elects to violate the law, who is left to protect the health of the public?"(16)


* Diabetes

The American Diabetes Association (ADA) is actually recommending this chemical poison to persons with diabetes, but according to research conducted by a diabetes specialist, aspartame: 1) Leads to the precipitation of clinical diabetes. 2) Causes poorer diabetic control in diabetics on insulin or oral drugs. 3) Leads to the aggravation of diabetic complications such as retinopathy, cataracts, neuropathy and gastroparesis. 4) Causes convulsions.

In a statement concerning the use of products containing aspartame by persons with diabetes and hypoglycemia, the researchers says:

"Unfortunately, many patients in my practice, and others seen in consultation, developed serious metabolic, neurologic and other complications that could be specifically attributed to using aspartame products. This was evidenced by the loss of diabetic control, the intensification of hypoglycemia, the occurrence of presumed 'insulin reactions' (including convulsions) that proved to be aspartame reactions, and the precipitation, aggravation or simulation of diabetic complications (especially impaired vision and neuropathy) while using these products ... Dramatic improvement of such features after avoiding aspartame, and the prompt predictable recurrence of these problems when the patient resumed aspartame products, knowingly or inadvertently."

Another researcher stated that excitotoxins such as those found in aspartame can precipitate diabetes in persons who are genetically susceptible to the disease.(5)

* Emotional Disorders

In a double blind study of the effects of aspartame on persons with mood disorders, findings showed a large increase in serious symptoms for persons taking aspartame. Since some of the symptoms were so serious, the Institutional Review Board had to stop the study. Three of the participants had said that they had been "poisoned" by aspartame. Researchers concluded that "individuals with mood disorders are particularly sensitive to this artificial sweetener; its use in this population should be discouraged."(18) One researcher stated about aspartame, "I know it causes seizures. I'm convinced also that it definitely causes behavioral changes. I'm very angry that this substance is on the market. I personally question the reliability and validity of any studies funded by the NutraSweet Company."(19)

Additionally, there are numerous reported cases of low brain serotonin levels, depression and other emotional disorders that have been linked to aspartame and often are relieved by stopping the intake of aspartame.

* Epilepsy/Seizures


With the large and growing number of seizures caused by aspartame, it is sad to see that the Epilepsy Foundation is promoting the "safety" of aspartame. At Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 80 people who had suffered seizures after ingesting aspartame were surveyed. Community Nutrition Institute concluded the following about the survey:

"These 80 cases meet the FDA's own definition of an imminent hazard to the public health, which requires the FDA to expeditiously remove a product from the market."

Both the Air Force's magazine, Flying Safety, and the Navy's magazine, Navy Physiology, published articles warning about the many dangers of aspartame including the cumulative delirious effects of methanol and the greater likelihood of birth defects. The articles note that the ingestion of aspartame can make pilots more susceptible to seizures and vertigo. Twenty articles sounding warnings about ingesting aspartame while flying have also appeared in the National Business Aircraft Association Digest (NBAA Digest 1993), Aviation Medical Bulletin (1988), The Aviation Consumer (1988), Canadian General Aviation News (1990), Pacific Flyer (1988), General Aviation News (1989), Aviation Safety Digest (1989), and Plane & Pilot (1990) and a paper warning about aspartame was presented at the 57th Annual Meeting of the Aerospace Medical Association (Gaffney 1986).

Why don't we hear about these things?

The reason many people do not hear about serious reactions to aspartame is twofold: 1) Lack of awareness by the general population. Aspartame-caused diseases are not reported in the newspapers like plane crashes. This is because these incidents occur one at a time in thousands of different locations across the United States. 2) Most people do not associate their symptoms with the long-term use of aspartame. For the people who have killed a significant percentage of their brain cells and thereby caused a chronic illness, there is no way that they would normally associate such an illness with aspartame consumption.

In addition:

Your Sweet Tooth and Obesity | Weight Loss News

Your Sweet Tooth and Obesity

Monday, August 18, 2008 - Byron J. Richards, CCN

Individuals are deluded to think that drinking beverages containing no-calorie sweeteners will help them lose weight or at least not gain weight. A new study continues to debunk this myth. Participants in the San Antonio Heart Study were evaluated at baseline and again seven years later. Consumption of artificially sweetened beverages increased body mass index (BMI) by 47%, compared to those who did not consume these beverages. The greater the intake, the worse the obesity-related problem.

The researchers concluded by saying “These findings raise the question whether artificial sweetener use might be fueling—rather than fighting—our escalating obesity epidemic.”

It’s obviously fueling the epidemic, along with the consumption of horrid sweeteners like high fructose corn syrup. In the case of artificial sweeteners, your taste buds are fooled and leptin receptors on them send a message to your brain that calories are coming – when in fact they are not. This causes you to overeat at future meals to “get caught up.”
Controlling your cravings for food, including your desire for ingestion of sweets, whether artificially sweetened or not, is essential if you are to keep on a consistent weight loss plan. Follow this link if you want more tips on controlling food cravings.

I stopped and thought for more than a second, and just for the record, there is no such thing as a 'fake chemical'. I know what you mean, but that's not the point.

Apart from that, I think this is pointless.

I used to use piles of sugar in everything and drank sugary soda, that got me overweight. Now I am drinking water, use sweeteners in tea and sometimes drink low cal pop, and guess what? Weight loss. No sugar cravings, no . And if I ever get diabetes, who'll be able to tell if it's from the sugar or the sweeteners? None of the things you listed can be pinpointed down to the use of sweeteners, or aspartame specifically. Unless you can rule out ALL other influences you can say for sure that it is this ONE thing that is the cause of the cancer, deformation, etc. And since you can't rule out all other outside influence....well, you might get my point.

I thought I said 'everything in moderation'. But maybe that wasn't clear enough, not sure.

I think we pretty much live in different worlds, I should have known that from looking at the first post that I replied to. So let's just call it quits.....you've got your opinion, I've got mine. No need to waste any more time.

Then refrain from parsing words with me. I did just state my opinion and then you hopped all over it.

No worries, I will refrain from anything with you in future.

Just wondering, is parsing one of your favourite words? You seem to use it as an insult towards everybody who doesn't seem to meet your 'standards', or doesn't share your opinion.

Speaking of....I have one, you have one. I repeat my earlier, unanswered question....What is your problem?

No, actually I only use "parsing words" when someone is following a certain style of debate on this forum that focuses more on the precise words used, even when the intent and meaning of those words is MORE THAN CLEAR. What is YOUR problem?

I don't have one. I don't follow a certain 'debate' style, or engage in 'debates' regularly on this forum. You made a statement:

I questioned that statement because it seemed a little far fetched, and unsubstantiated to me. Not to mention extremely arrogant, basically accusing everybody who sees any health benefits in chemically derived products (whatever they may be) as lacking in common sense.

If I had really wanted to 'parse words', believe me, there would have been a lot more in your statement to disect. As it is, I asked a question, and you went off on one. And never actually refered to the orginal point.

But, as you said before.....whatever.

The only 'debates' I had recently, if you can call it that, were with you, funnily enough.

And you never mentioned foods. That's where being precise comes in.

But apparently you're happy to come across the way you do. More power to you.

I see you have a need for the last word, so I'm curious if you will be sure to get it after this post. As to the continual personal negative comments you keep making about me, I have not done the same to you and don't know why you're being rude. As I said, whateva.