What gives Steve O. Just you and me one on one. Take your best shot.

The posse can advise you via PM. I would like that.

I think you are scared.

this isn't a school yard- challenging people to a fight is just dumb...

you want credibility - back up what you're spouting - otherwise...

Scared of what?

What are you challenging me too?

I haven't disagreed with anything you've said moron.

You keep reverting back to obesity being caused by gluttonous behavior. No shit sherlock. I bet it took you 12+ years of school to figure out too.

I'm not disagreeing with your assertion either.... so not sure what you want from me.

I think a bit more complexly than you. You say obesity is a function of gluttonous behavior. I say obesity is a function of gluttonous behavior which is function of more deeply rooted factors.

Our society and technology has allowed for changes in the availability of food and lifestyle requirements far faster than our genome has been able to adapt to them.

As far as our physiology is concerned, we're still living without any food surplus, in a situation where it's actually an advantage to store fat whenever possible. Throw such a conservative system into an environment where such a scarce resource becomes absolutely plentiful......

Again, it doesn't take rocket science to come up with a list of reasons why obese people are in the conditions they're in. But that's all you keep emphasizing. Get to your point. Instead of saying you are The Greatest and offering help.... try helping. Take a trot around the forum and help those in need. Stop putting yourself on some pedestal expecting people to come to you.

Is the obese person responsible? I'd say both yes and no. I think "blame" is a more complex thing than just saying the obese person is lazy, because of the above.

In one sense, the obese person certainly is responsible for his/her own condition. After all, the obese person is the one that took in too many calories each day and did no exercise. For years. Though in another sense, people that have been in that state from childhood might simply have never thought, known, or been taught any different.

On the other hand, the physiological situation and a simple lack of information or concern can make it more than simply a matter of being lazy or gluttonous.

I think we see eye to eye on a few issues. Not so much on others?

But I still don't get what you want or what you are bringing to the table?

If you could explain your position in 3 or less sentences, what would they be?

And stop challenging me all over the forum, you look pathetic. A civil conversation without you going off on tangents will suffice.

I am not doing that. This is a one on one debate and Steve has sent a girl.

He delted the first challenge that asked the question is obesity a result of sloth and gluttony.

Are you taking steve's place?

oooh...

as I said, steve doesn't need me to speak for him.. .he's quite capable of doing it -He doesn't send me anywhere -and skippy, I'm not a girl -i am a grown woman... (::waits for the incoming insult:

I deleted the thread -not him -and I'm expecting the pm where he yells at me for doing so...

answer steve's questions and move on...

Enough is enough, someone ban this guy's IP already. This kind of Immature behavior is not welcome here. There has been nothing but conflict since he got here.:beatdeadhorse5:

What gives you the impression that I've 'sent' someone?

When did I 'delted' a challenge?

ETA: Sorry, thought you were trying to say I dealt the first challenge. Now I understand, you meant to type deleted. Which I didn't.

If the peanut gallery stays out of it it will not go off on tangents. I am not the ome doing the challenging. I am an authority on weight loss and I was the one who got challenged.

We have differnt styles you spoon feed these people pablem while I serve them crow.

If the peanut gallery stays out of it it will not go off on tangents. I am not the ome doing the challenging. I am an authority on weight loss and I was the one who got challenged.

We have differnt styles you spoon feed these people pablem while I serve them crow.

Touché.

I'm retarded.

Dude, I gave you a straight up responses.... don't fucking play games or I'll just ignore you. As much as I'm sure you're into this.... and it seems I'm into it.... I'm not. I'm just passing some free time before I go home and eat some Halloween candy to make myself obese.

I'm down with a straight up discussion or debate. However, don't twist things to paint pictures or the game will end quickly fucko.

Endless.

For instance, I'm working with a woman who has stuffed herself with a surplus of calories for years. She knows this. It's very hard for her to revert her habits though, since her parents were both hyper-obese themselves.

When habits are ingrained from the very impressionable infantile stage in life, keeping your energy balance in check isn't as simple as choosing not to be gluttonous.

Their gluttonous behavior is a function of more complex issues.

All this psychobabble you spit, of course without getting into any sort of specifics…. I’m surprised that you don’t understand the role the subconscious mind plays on behavior. And how complex and misunderstood of an area this is. And the mechanisms that establish different behaviors, good or bad, are endless.

I know you aren't stupid. You're most likely baiting me in some context, which is fine. But hundreds of such underlying factors can be listed here. Take your pick.

To add, from what I can tell from what you've presented so far in this forum.... your answer to said problems is to simply say.... "Stop being gluttonous."

I don't know what kind of retarded people you're working with.... but the obese people I've worked with know they're acting gluttonously. Telling them to stop would be a waste of my breath. Rather, on top of educating them, helping develop ways to change their behavioral norms is a great place to start.

Listen, I'm not a stupid man. Stop throwing around exact figures without representation of the supporting data. When you do such things, the burden of proof lies on your shoulders.

That said, when did I say anything about the price of food driving obesity patterns?

Food has become more abundant. Terrible food. There were not 4 fast food joints in every mall and at every industrialized street corner back then.

On top of this, lifestyles have changed. You are so short sighted it fucking amazes me.

For instance, what role do you think computers and the Internet play on obesity? Do you think computers created the demand for more and more sedentary jobs? Do you think there are more computers today than there were 30 years ago?

Our environment has changed, like it or not. You saying it hasn’t doesn’t make this statement any less true.

Rule number 2.... don't rule out what I have to say with a simple dismissal simply b/c you don't agree. I don't and won't waste my time with such narrow-mindedness. Again, I'll simply stop this discussion/debate and put you on ignore.

Yes, I know... you would then taunt me saying I'm afraid to debate you but let this stand as my statement of exit since I'm sure you aren't about to change your moronic ways:

I am interested in the subject we're discussing. But I can find someone willing to hold a reasonable position without acting like a pompous asshole, and get a lot more out of the discussion.

So keep this in mind when you respond. Act reasonably and the discussion will continue.

You say you are a science guy, right?

Answer me this: How long do you think it takes the human body to adapt to stresses such as famine and food scarcity? Or a different question that would yield the same answer: How long do you think it will take for the human body to adapt to the stress of an over-abundance of food?

If you don’t think our bodies are ‘dialed in’ to prevent starvation, you grossly misunderstand the biology of the human body. We’re still very good at storing fat for survival, even though we don’t need this safeguard anymore.

Yes, there was an abundance of food 100 years ago. I didn't say otherwise, so don't go screaming "bunk" like a retarded baboon getting off in front of the spectators at the zoo.

Was food as plentiful (or as readily available) as it is today? No. Again, environments have changed subtly, and in some cases, grossly. Do you really not see this?

Our lifestyles/environments have changed faster than our bodies. You call it laziness. For some, this is certainly the case. But this laziness has roots stemming from these changes in environment. See above wrt the Internet. Think about how many people are working in office-type of jobs compared to 30+ years ago. Think about all the nuances that entice people to be inactive, which were not readily available 30+ years ago.

Couple this with the fact that you've now got fat parents raising fat kids creating a perpetual problem. If you don't call that an epidemic, I'm not too sure about you Fuck.... I mean Chuck.

The list can go on and on.

Divorce rates are through the roof. So?

There is a lot more opportunity in today's society to become dysfunctional due to psychological/emotional stress that wasn't as abundant 30+ years ago.

And please save the time and don’t go point by point here and refute. I could make 100 points about how complex an issue it is. That’s the my point…. you are making this out to be such a simple problem with an easier simpler solution.

You seem to be looking for the one causal factor that makes people fat. You really think it's that simplistic?

And if so, what is it, in your mind?

I'm really hoping this isn't your answer to my above question. If so, consider this discussion done.

I wasn't aware that the words 'yes' and 'no', when paired together = an argument.

Sorry, I'm not even sure how to respond.

Wow, I'll admit that I didn't read your entire post before I started responding. Now that I'm this deep into it, I can see that we aren't going to get anywhere with this. You think what you think and it's not going to change.

I'm ok with that.... we are all entitled to our own opinions. But don't expect to come at me and get a response with statements such as the one above.

"people are fat b/c we live in a sissy society"

"people are fat b/c they eat too much"

Those don't say a whole heck of a lot, Chuckie.

Again, I've answered your questions, certainly with some added name-calling and whatnot.

But I have not written off your ideas.

Don't write mine off again. This is my third warning to you in this post. The reason I've given you three now is due to the fact that so far you seem to be a bit retarded and have a severe inability to comprehend. I'm hoping with a little repetition, things will sink in for ya.

Not all. I've come across plenty of people who've lost the weight and kept it off. I've helped plenty of people to take the weight off and keep it off.

But as a whole, much of the overweight/obese population struggle.

That's nothing new. What is your point? My point is, and has been since the get go, that the factor that drives this inability to take corrective action is deeply rooted and multi-layered, as discussed throughout this post.

You've yet to do anything except say, "your ideas suck."

Stop being an asshat.

All you've shown to this forum is your ability to make assumptions.

You have no idea about my intent. Am I popular on this forum? I believe so. Do I care? Not a bit. The popularity was the product of actions.

By your flawed standard it should be the other way around though. Ya know, the whole, I'm the man at weight loss so bow down and worship me.

You are a silly peon.

Hahahaha, no.

I certainly don't allow it. You know nothing about my practices, again, stop with the presumptuous behavior.

I confront it with a lot less negativity.

Don't forget, you aren't the only one that has had success with helping others lose weight.

You say you’ve had a 70% success rate. Great job. Mine is at least 70% and a bet a lot higher. I hate throwing that number out there b/c it’s a stat we can’t prove… but my point is, it’s not your way or the highway. I know plenty of successful trainers/coaches that get positive results.

.

Brilliance.

Nobody challenged you. You have such a skewed perception; it makes it very difficult for me, and others apparently, to relate to you.

You came in here claiming 'guru status' and people naturally questioned you.

Expecting it to be different is insanity and I suggest you get yourself checked.

And the sky is red. Prove me wrong.

You can say shit all day long.... but it means about as much to me and anyone reading this with a hint of commonsense, as does my above statement

Steve, I'm sure you've heard the story why it's not a good idea to have an argument with a pig . . .

[QUOTE=Steve;344285]Touché.

I'm retarded.



Dude, I gave you a straight up responses.... don't fucking play games or I'll just ignore you. As much as I'm sure you're into this.... and it seems I'm into it.... I'm not. I'm just passing some free time before I go home and eat some Halloween candy to make myself obese.

I'm down with a straight up discussion or debate. However, don't twist things to paint pictures or the game will end quickly fucko.

I didn't twist anything. You said that fat people are gluttons. Are you going to deny that?



Endless.

For instance, I'm working with a woman who has stuffed herself with a surplus of calories for years. She knows this. It's very hard for her to revert her habits though, since her parents were both hyper-obese themselves.

When habits are ingrained from the very impressionable infantile stage in life, keeping your energy balance in check isn't as simple as choosing not to be gluttonous.

That is a cop out.

Their gluttonous behavior is a function of more complex issues.

No it isn't. You said the issue was being over fed as a child. If you want to help you need to make her understand in no uncertain terms she need to eat a normal amount of calories. You cannot coddle her. You need to hit her with a giant dose of harsh reality. Her carvings are not overpowering. She has been indulged and coddled. Have her in her own word articulate the consequences of her behavior. Read her the riot act! Ask her what is more important indulging her junk food habit or her health and the health of her family.

Every time she shoves something bad into her pie hole she is comitting a willful act. She is not powerless over junk food. She chooses to eat crap. Ask her why she make those bad choices.

Steve, don't make it more complicated than it is. Stay focused on what is known and don't indulge them in their lame theories. You are the boss not them. Don't let them insult your intelligence. Be tough!

All this psychobabble you spit, of course without getting into any sort of specifics…. I’m surprised that you don’t understand the role the subconscious mind plays on behavior. And how complex and misunderstood of an area this is. And the mechanisms that establish different behaviors, good or bad, are endless.

I am not spouting psycho babble. What do you think I have said that is psycho babble?

I know you aren't stupid. You're most likely baiting me in some context, which is fine. But hundreds of such underlying factors can be listed here. Take your pick.

To add, from what I can tell from what you've presented so far in this forum.... your answer to said problems is to simply say.... "Stop being gluttonous."

Sometimes that is all they need to hear. Their behavior is gluttonous. They often do not think they are glutton but you and I both know they are. The truth hurts and unfortunately for fat people in recovery they are going to feel that pain. They are in denial. They will not admit that they are gluttons. Steve, the first step to recovery is admitting the problem. If a person is fat it is because they are a glutton. When they admit that they are one step closer to recovery.

I don't know what kind of retarded people you're working with.... but the obese people I've worked with know they're acting gluttonously. Telling them to stop would be a waste of my breath. Rather, on top of educating them, helping develop ways to change their behavioral norms is a great place to start.

Don't BS me, They blame everything but their gluttony. They need to make changes and most choose not to change because they are selfish and self indulgent. That is their MO. I break them down. If I think they are lying I come down on them.



Listen, I'm not a stupid man. Stop throwing around exact figures without representation of the supporting data. When you do such things, the burden of proof lies on your shoulders.

If I state a fact and you think it is wrong then YOU prove me wrong. I am not a liar.

That said, when did I say anything about the price of food driving obesity patterns?

??????

Food has become more abundant. Terrible food. There were not 4 fast food joints in every mall and at every industrialized street corner back then.

There were not malls back then. The obesity epidemic is a symptom of a sick society. We are professional consumers. See the George Carlin video link in the other thread.

We have terrible food because that is what fat people want. 65% of Americans are fat BUT BUT they eat 85% of the food. Their tastes determine what food are sold. Fat people are bad citizens.

On top of this, lifestyles have changed. You are so short sighted it fucking amazes me.

They made the choices to be lazy and gluttonous. The chose the gluttonous lifestyle and our society of which 65% are fat enable it. Fat people are victims of their own behavior and nobody is holding them accountable. I hold them accountable. You blame McDonalds. I blame fat people for McDonalds success.

For instance, what role do you think computers and the Internet play on obesity? Do you think computers created the demand for more and more sedentary jobs? Do you think there are more computers today than there were 30 years ago?

I have not checked labor stats but I would think that computers would eliminate a lot of clerical jobs. I am not going to blame computers. I don't think the percentage of office jobs has increased.

Our environment has changed, like it or not. You saying it hasn’t doesn’t make this statement any less true.

Fat people changed it. They buy big SUVs. They eat out. The love shopping malls. The increase health care costs. Google "costs obesity" Fat people are symptom of our nanny state.



Rule number 2.... don't rule out what I have to say with a simple dismissal simply b/c you don't agree. I don't and won't waste my time with such narrow-mindedness. Again, I'll simply stop this discussion/debate and put you on ignore.

Take your ball and go home?

Yes, I know... you would then taunt me saying I'm afraid to debate you but let this stand as my statement of exit since I'm sure you aren't about to change your moronic ways:

An escape route for when I kick your butt huh?

I am interested in the subject we're discussing. But I can find someone willing to hold a reasonable position without acting like a pompous asshole, and get a lot more out of the discussion.

I am just really enlighten and confident and I make you feel like an asshole. You are the one losing your cool. I am not even trying to push your buttons.

So keep this in mind when you respond. Act reasonably and the discussion will continue.


You say you are a science guy, right?

Answer me this: How long do you think it takes the human body to adapt to stresses such as famine and food scarcity? Or a different question that would yield the same answer: How long do you think it will take for the human body to adapt to the stress of an over-abundance of food?

What reactions are you talking about?

If you don’t think our bodies are ‘dialed in’ to prevent starvation, you grossly misunderstand the biology of the human body. We’re still very good at storing fat for survival, even though we don’t need this safeguard anymore.

Yes, there was an abundance of food 100 years ago. I didn't say otherwise, so don't go screaming "bunk" like a retarded baboon getting off in front of the spectators at the zoo.

Was food as plentiful (or as readily available) as it is today? No.* Again, environments have changed subtly, and in some cases, grossly. Do you really not see this?

*Source? I will check the consumer price index.

Food was readily available 100 years ago. We had plenty of junk food 30 years and but little obesity. KFC McDonalds, Burger King were around then. There were pizza joints since the 1950, There were ice cream shops.

Our lifestyles/environments have changed faster than our bodies. You call it laziness. For some, this is certainly the case. But this laziness has roots stemming from these changes in environment. See above wrt the Internet. Think about how many people are working in office-type of jobs compared to 30+ years ago. Think about all the nuances that entice people to be inactive, which were not readily available 30+ years ago.

BUNK! Show me that there are a greater percentage of office jobs.

Couple this with the fact that you've now got fat parents raising fat kids creating a perpetual problem. If you don't call that an epidemic, I'm not too sure about you Fuck.... I mean Chuck. <------- Deca is bad!


Fat parents are guilty of child abuse and neglect. They know what they are giving their kid is poison and they know it is wrong. Stop making excuses for them. If they loved their kids more than they loved food they would change their ways. 35% of Americans are not fat because they behave and parent in a responsible manner. They love their kids more than food.

The list can go on and on.

Divorce rates are through the roof. So?

Fat people have hormone imbalances. Fat men act like sissies because of the estrogen in their man boobs and the women are unattractive drama queens. Fat spouses are a turn off. Then you have the I I I me me me that goes hand in hand with gluttony and it is easy to see why the divorce rate increase parallels the the obesity increase.

There is a lot more opportunity in today's society to become dysfunctional due to psychological/emotional stress that wasn't as abundant 30+ years ago.

BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK BUNK! What stress. My father had stress. My grandfather had stress. People are big fat hormonally challenged babies today and the cannot handle stress. Explain why you think there is more stress today. Ever heard of WW2, Korea, the Cold War and Viet Nam? That was stress!

And please save the time and don’t go point by point here and refute. I could make 100 points about how complex an issue it is. That’s the my point…. you are making this out to be such a simple problem with an easier simpler solution.

You seem to be looking for the one causal factor that makes people fat. You really think it's that simplistic?

It is simple. They are a bunch of coddled babies.

And if so, what is it, in your mind?

We are like the fall of the Roman Empire. We are decadent and weak.



I'm really hoping this isn't your answer to my above question. If so, consider this discussion done.



I wasn't aware that the words 'yes' and 'no', when paired together = an argument.

Things either are or they are not. You are using hedge words so you can have it both ways.

Sorry, I'm not even sure how to respond.



Wow, I'll admit that I didn't read your entire post before I started responding. Now that I'm this deep into it, I can see that we aren't going to get anywhere with this. You think what you think and it's not going to change.

I'm ok with that.... we are all entitled to our own opinions. But don't expect to come at me and get a response with statements such as the one above.

"people are fat b/c we live in a sissy society"

"people are fat b/c they eat too much"

Those don't say a whole heck of a lot, Chuckie.

It says a hell of a lot Stevie. We are a weak society of selfish greedy people who are ripe to get taken over. There are 20 million illegal Mexicans here and we are letting the stay because we a too fat and lazy to do the work they are willing to do.

Again, I've answered your questions, certainly with some added name-calling and whatnot.

You are doing the name calling. Mods are allowed to do that. Right? I could call you an out of control roid monkey but I won't.

But I have not written off your ideas.

Don't write mine off again. This is my third warning to you in this post. The reason I've given you three now is due to the fact that so far you seem to be a bit retarded and have a severe inability to comprehend. I'm hoping with a little repetition, things will sink in for ya.

If you are spouting BS that appeases gluttons I will tell you I think you are full of shit.


Not all. I've come across plenty of people who've lost the weight and kept it off. I've helped plenty of people to take the weight off and keep it off.

The data says 2% to 5% lose weight and keep off. Your anecdotal observation are meaningless.

But as a whole, much of the overweight/obese population struggle.

Or they pretend they do.

That's nothing new. What is your point? My point is, and has been since the get go, that the factor that drives this inability to take corrective action is deeply rooted and multi-layered, as discussed throughout this post.

And you accuse me of psycho babble? They have the ability to change. They choose not to change. Lazy weak people always take the path of least resistance.

You've yet to do anything except say, "your ideas suck."

Stop being an asshat.



All you've shown to this forum is your ability to make assumptions.

You are making assumptions. I am providing facts.

You have no idea about my intent. Am I popular on this forum? I believe so. Do I care? Not a bit. The popularity was the product of actions.

Yeah you are an ass kisser. Fat people love ass kissers.

By your flawed standard it should be the other way around though. Ya know, the whole, I'm the man at weight loss so bow down and worship me.

You are a silly peon.



Hahahaha, no.

I certainly don't allow it. You know nothing about my practices, again, stop with the presumptuous behavior.

I confront it with a lot less negativity.

Don't forget, you aren't the only one that has had success with helping others lose weight.

You say you’ve had a 70% success rate. Great job. Mine is at least 70% and a bet a lot higher. I hate throwing that number out there b/c it’s a stat we can’t prove… but my point is, it’s not your way or the highway. I know plenty of successful trainers/coaches that get positive results.

.[/QUOTE]

Steve I have defied the odds. I coach and I confront BS and quitters. I tear them down so that I can rebuild them.

The sky is red, Chuckie. Prove me wrong.

Or....

Better yet; People are fat ONLY because they are gluttonous and this gluttony is a function of itself. There are no outside factors to blame for the behavior except greed and laziness.

Prove it.