Hi, i am trying to loose 3 stone at the moment...

I am 15st 74 and i need to get into shape, i have started going to the gym at least 3 times a week and doing 35mins of bike, 25mins of cross trainer and then swimming for an hour

But i dont feel i am loosing weight I wont quit because it makes me feel good but i am wondering if i should be doing some weight training... I havent done any because i dont want to turn this much fat into muscle, i would look really butch and really just want to tone down and be flat, not huge and muscl-y!

So Should i be weight training? will i lose weight using the system i have here or do i have to do the weight bits?


Thanks for your advice - Fi xx

Okay, a couple of things here.

First, do you do all of those things in one session (bike, crosstrainterm swimming)? Or do you do one each time you work out?
If you do them all at once you are overtraining. Doing cardio-type stuff for more than an hour at a time is counter-productive.

Second, what is your diet like? The key to weight loss is controlling your food intake. If you aren't watching what you eat very carefully, you won't lose weight even if you do exercise.

Third, yes you should be doing weight training. It is good exercise, it helps you hang on to your current muscle which you will otherwise lose as you lose weight. Strength training is critical for making sure you hang onto that precious muscle mass. And no, you won't get bulky. At all. Period.
To actually build muscle mass you have to train hard and be in a calorie-surplus state. If you do that, weight loss is impossible.

Since you want to lose weight you need to be in a calorie deficit, and it is very very hard to build muscle mass in a caloric deficit. What you will do is get stronger (not the same as getting bigger muscles), help lower your body fat percentage, and as you lose weight the muscles that are already there will show through more. You won't get bulky or butch.
Fat does not turn into muscle - there's no alchemy here.

If you cut your food intake, and keep doing what you are doing, you will still lose weight (because you are putting yourself in a caloric deficit), but of you don't maintain your current muscle, you may end up at a lower weight but with a high body fat percentage - what is called "skinny fat".
And nobody wants that.

Ditto that. Read twice and then ask questions.

I agree on the over training-I know it sounds weird but what your doing is detrimental (and discouraging too I'm sure!)

Give us some info on what, when and how often you eat. It's impossible to tell without that data.

I will say though, if you are willing to do that much it's just a question of revising your tactics. Most people won't give that kind of effort

Good Luck

Mark

What they said, but all also cut to the chase and be very blunt:

Fat doesn't turn into muscle
You don't get "really butch" whatever that means, by weight liftings
You don't get huge and muscle-y by weight lifting and strength training w/out putting in hours a day of intense work, eating a very specific diet, and possibly taking drugs.

Read the stickies on weight lifting and strength training and do your best to eliminate those myths from your mind.

Yep every time i go to the gym (which is about three times a week) i do about an hour cardio and an hours swimming

but have been considering moving away from that and doing an hours swimming or cardio, followed by a weight training session, 3 times a week

Its good to know that i can change what i am doing...

As for 'calorie counting' i absolutely refuse to get into it, i believe its why most people stay fat and i think its incredibly soul destroying

i used to drink large cups of Yorkshire tea with milk and sugar - i have replaced that with Herbal Teas and honey

I used to eat meat for nearly every meal, i have replaced that with fish (and smaller portions to boot)

I used to snack on choccy and biscuits and now i eat things like brunch bars and nuts and fruit bars

I dont necessarily want to adjust my life to loose weight, i want to change my lifestyle so that i can be healthier and happier with myself, calorie counting wont do that but making healthy decisions will.

I work from home mostly, alot of my work is based in a chair so i enjoy doing an hours cardio a day - most people would get that from walking to work i imagine, or running about during the day

will look into doing some weight stuff and possibly bring my training down to just a 40min bike session followed by a swim

to be more specific - i generally drink lots of herbal tea, have cereal and milk quite late in the day because my stomach doesnt wake up for a while and if i eat before i exercise then i feel really horrid

then i usually have a snack of a nut bar, eat dinner of fish, potato and some veggies and usually i have another nut bar in the evening because i am so used to snacking at night that my body just craves and craves it (I am hoping this choccy craving will pass soon because its so hard to resist)

Unless you just really enjoy the cardio, you could probably do your weight training and then cut your cardio back to 30 mins and that would be quite sufficient.

Interesting. I've lost 80 lbs and kept it off for 2 years by counting calories, as have several of my friends. As far as I know, I'm still in possession of my soul.

Quite true ... it all depends on your goals. If you want to lose weight, however, ultimately it is about calories in vs. calories out, no matter how you choose to manage those calories - by direct counting or by switching around what you eat.

I enjoy swimming, i am happy to swim for an hour a day if i had the time so i think i will keep that going and do weight-training and cardio as a seperate thing, 20 mins on the bike, 20 on the cross trainer and then i will arrange a weights program

actually just got back from the gym and am having a meeting tomorrow at 11am so i can get a programme worked out for the gym


Nice one! you should be very proud of your achievements, everyone is different though and calorie counting smacks to me of obession, denying yourself things you want and generally constantly worrying about food and weight and food

I have always had a problem with food, i was born quite blind so i didnt move for a while, food was something i could explore without moving, classic symptom of a child who cannot see... So i have always had a love/hate relationship with food, i use it for comfort, when i am bored and so on

i really need to eat to survive and that is what my heart tells me, getting more obessesd with food would be totally counter-productive

This is the only bit i disagree with, if i eat more healthily, exercise more and improve my lifestyle, i will loose weight, it might not happen quickly but i am not determine that it will, i am fortunate enough to have a life full of joy anyway so loosing weight will just be a bonus - Spending my days counting every calorie and refusing the odd biscuit because it will make my daily average too high is just silly, it about a lifestyle choice rather than a constant system of punishment and few rewards.

Pick up the book, "Mindless Eating."

You're actually agreeing with her.

Not disagreeing.

Kara is saying fat loss is and always will be primarily about energy (calories) in vs. out.

You can either directly count energy flux or you can simply do things that indirectly will most likely lead to control of energy.

Either way, it's still about taking in less calories than your body needs.

One person might count calories and know that he or she is in a caloric deficit.

Another person may pay no attention to calories but simply eat more calorically-sparse, nutrient-dense foods (thus limited calories indirectly).

Both will have the same outcome.

Just different paths.

Hey, Feeb.

On this last point, I'd look at it a bit differently. You can certainly can choose your behaviors (and the values that drive those behaviors). If you feel the the downsides of counting calories (at least right now in your life) outweigh the benefits, then you can certainly make the choice not to count calories.

However, we don't get to choose facts--we lose weight when we take in less calories than we use. We gain weight when we take in more calories then we use. (The relationship is complex--it isn't a simple linear function, as our bodies react to calorie surpluses and deficits. But, after all those effects are taken into account, at the end of the day we're taking in either more calories than we use, less than we use, or the same amount as we use.)

So, at the point where behavior meets those facts, a couple things can happen. If the behavior you choose is exercising and eating healthy, but not counting calories, then you might find you are in a calorie deficit, and lose weight. In which case, rock on! However, you might find you aren't in a calorie deficit, and then you'll either gain weight (if you have a surplus) or stay at the same weight. On the level of values--you can choose either of those outcomes as fine. You can certainly say exercising and eating healthy, but not counting calories, is more important to me than weight loss. In which case, once again, rock on--exercising and eating healthy have a lot of benefits whether you lose weight or not.

The point at which you might want to revisit counting calories is if you adopt the healthy eating and exercise, you do place a value on losing weight, and you don't see the weight loss happening. At that point, getting a better handle on calories in can be very helpful in terms of seeing how to eat healthy and control quantities. Counting calories is not about punishment--it's about gathering information that can help you make choices that support your goals. Some people regulate calories in vs. calories out unconsciously, and therefore never have to give the matter any thought. For me, not so much. Even when I think I'm eating healthy, if I don't keep track of how many calories I'm taking in, my weight will drift up. So, for me, counting calories is just putting a conscious action in place to do something my unconscious doesn't do very well on its own.

It's not about denial and punishment--weekend brunch at my house I make banana pancakes for myself, my wife and my son. When my mother-in-law bakes apple crisp, I'll have a piece for dessert. My wife and I keep dark chocolate and a nice selection of wines in the house--they're treats we both enjoy. I don't live like a monk or anything. I just keep track of my calories so that I can make conscious choices that support my goals, rather than just acting in the dark.

Good luck!

Nice one Steve you are quite right - i am of the mindset that loosing weight is about being healthier and exercising more -

that way its not like a diet which you have to control, you will gradually build up behaviours in your brain which make living healthier much easier and therefore it will be a perminant solution rather than a 'diet' or something that you just do to loose weight

But i totally respect Kara and how she has chosen to loose weight and keep it off - everyone is different

Rupert - I appreciate that calories are one way of measuring the food that you eat but they are not the only way - common sense is a pretty big factor too

look above for how i have replaced stodgy meaty meals with lovely wholesome fish n veggie meals, i am not counting every calorie i put in, but i am making balanced choices towards a healthier life

I think that if you count calories, you get quite a quick response from your body, whereas i have waited a good few weeks to recieve any thing from mine to suggest that i am doing any good - fortunatly this morning i stood on the scales and i have lost weight Finally - am very happy

This thread wasnt supposed to be about calorie counting or diet, i am happy to adjust my diet in my own way which suits myself and my family, but i was interested in peoples ideas on weight training, due to the response i got, i went and did some leg weight work today

I am happy to handle my diet, i reckon i am doing okay with it and calorie counting is not for me - just eating healthy - thats the way to do it

Yeah, for me calorie counting is absolutely not about denial or obsession. It's about a healthy knowledge of what I'm putting in my body. But as you said, everyone is different.

You know, upon further reflection, I'd like to add one thing .. .I am a big believer that there is no "one right way" to lose weight. There are lots of variations on the theme and some people are able to manage food quantity w/out counting calories.

What I object to is the statement that "calorie counting makes people stay fat" and that it's "soul sucking" and "obsessive" and "deprivation eating" and all those other phrases.

If YOU don't like it, super. If YOU have found something else that works, awesome.

But putting down something that is proven to work and is, at it's most fundamental, at the heart of all weight loss is a huge disservice to people who are reading the thread who might not understand that what you're expressing is personal opinion and not fact.

Calorie counting does not keep people fat.
Calorie counting is not obsessive (and if you make it so that's not about the calorie counting itself, it's about an obsessive nature)
Calorie counting has nothing to do with depriving yourself (in fact, IMO, calorie counting is far less deprivational than the diets that force you to eliminate whole groups of foods).
Calorie counting has nothing to do with "constantly worrying" about weight or food.

Anyone is welcome to choose to see those attributes, but I object to having them forced on everyone just because.